Phrag kovachii culture!

[orchidman77]

Hey Guys!

I would first like to say that I have been reading on this forum for a LOOOONG time....but not posting. Thank you all very much for providing completely phenomenal pictures, information, and support!

I figured that, since there is a Phrag kovachii in our midst :drool::drool::drool::drool::drool:, we should have a thread devoted to the culture of this orchid. I do not possess one yet, but after these pictures from Jason and DrOrchid, I want one!!! Only problem, I don't know how to grow it.....I have paphs, phals, catts, and a dendrobium, but no phrags.

SO..........anyone want to post a comprehensive culture sheet for kovachii? I'll start off with a question.....can it be grown in ~70 degree inside temps?

David

 

[gonewild]

I'll start off with a question.....can it be grown in ~70 degree inside temps?
David

Are you asking about day or night temperature?
Low 60's at night to mid 80's in the day works well.

 

[Hera]

NYEric just posted this to another thread and it has culture notes.

http://www.phragmipediumkovachii.com/

 

[orchidman77]

thanks guys! I read the website you just posted, hera, and it was helpful. Lance, i don't know exactly, but the room is very near french doors so there would be a temperature differential, but an average of about 70 degrees.

I was asking for personal experience in the US, really. I want to know what you guys have done, what works, what doesn't, etc....

David

 

[gonewild]

For established plants....

I tried letting the nights go down to the high 50's with day temps in the low 70's and the plants basically sit still.

Raised the night temps to the low to mid 60's and they started growing a little.

Raised the day temps to low to mid 80's and growth kicked in.
So now I'm running about 64 night and 82 days.
Light is only CMH, no natural sunlight.

 

[slippertalker]

My experience is that they enjoy cool temperatures, and grow quickly during the spring and fall. If you can keep the night temperature to 55-60F and the day temperatures 75-80F, that seems to be ideal. They definitely slow down in the summer heat.

 

[Paul]

my experience after 3 years growing them:

humidity +++ at roots and air at all time,
temps: temperate nights are the best (~15°C). days can be up to 30°C with no problem if very humid. but 25°C is more suitable
low light when very small, then Phalaenopsis light when starting to grow fast (10-15cm). fertilizing: very low when very small (almost pure water), then a little higher when the roots get bigger (a little more than for besseae & co), usually when the plant reach at least 10cm wide. then the growth rate increases a lot.
water should be neutral, and/or better is to put something at the top of the pot to maintain the pH close to 7 (or a little less): dolomite, oister shells, egg shells ...

 

[TyroneGenade]

What doesn't work: sphagnum mixed with limestone/coral chips. The roots rot... My seedling is now in gravel with limestone chips with some sprigs of sphagnum for moisture and the rot has stopped. Whether the plant will grow or just die slowly remains to be seen...

 

[Paul]

What doesn't work: sphagnum mixed with limestone/coral chips. The roots rot... My seedling is now in gravel with limestone chips with some sprigs of sphagnum for moisture and the rot has stopped. Whether the plant will grow or just die slowly remains to be seen...

very acid + very alcaline = chemical reactions = production of salts... too bad for the roots, yes!! :evil:

 

[Bolero]

With respect to the temps listed above they should grow well and flower well below 15C considering they are a cool growing species. I know others (I don't have any) who grow them well below 50F and they grow well at these temps. They are one of the cooler growing Phrags.

 

[gonewild]

I don't think pk should be considered or classed as a cool growing orchid species. Temperatures as low as 15c would be on the rare extreme side in the natural habitat. Most of the year the environment is tropical.

When I have tried low temperatures my plants sit still and don't grow. When I raise the temperature they grow.

I think extreme high summer temperatures may be a problem but I don't have that problem here.

The key factor when dealing with high temperatures is to keep the foliage wet.

 

[orchidman77]

Thanks guys! I have a much better idea of what to do when I get one.

Ok.....I'm worried about not getting cool enough during the night. I measured the temp where I will eventually have one, and it got down to at least 65 F, maybe lower during the night. Keep in mind, this is winter.....from what I DO know, they appreciate slightly higher temps during the summer. And, from Lance has said, it may be ideal anyhow. I guess it will be something that I learn as I grow it.

I don't think that it will be a major issue, since I'll have everything else it will need to flourish. Is there any way that I can artificially lower the temperature in a very small space?

David

 

[gonewild]

Is there any way that I can artificially lower the temperature in a very small space?

David

Evaporate water.

 

[smartie2000]

Mine has been growing in Sphag, but I think some of the other members here seem to have more impressive plants. But my plant gave good growth this summer, after the addition of garden dolomite to the sphag. Sphag by itself is not a good thing with kovachii, seems to be a theme! I think I made the sphag less acidic with the dolomite, and also dolomite added magnesium to the mix

I just repotted my kovachii today in a clay pot with crushed coral, lava rock, etc on the bottom half of the pot, and loose sphag with dolomite and perlite, etc. on the top half of the pot.
I decided on the clay pot to keep the root system cool. I have not bloomed schlimii (thought it keeps growing), and they are related. I also repotted my schlimii in clay, as well as two besseae today. (besseae I don't have trouble with, but I thought I'd see if they would do better in clay)

Hopefully it was not a mistake to repot my kovachii with crushed coral. This coral was once in a freshwater aquarium, so salts should have been leached out by now.

My city tap water is naturally high in pH and with plenty of calcium carbonate which is why I chose a slightly acidic medium for my phrags, such as sphag. If I watered with RO water, I think I would change to a more neutral medium


I want to try diatomite with my orchids, but I need to find a source of it

And I agree that it is not a cool grower, it just doesn't need to be hot. I had good growth during the summer. I would not allow it to go above 30 degrees celcius. So household temperatures are good,

 

[orchidman77]

Thanks so much Fren! It seems possible to grow one now, lol. Before it seemed to me to be a hands-off plant, both in price and culture!!!

Lance, I'll be sure to try the water thing when I get one. Thanks for all of your help too!

David

 

[Leo Schordje]

I do have several Phrag kovachii maturing in my collection.

In FLASK ONLY - kovachii in flask MUST be kept cool. Reason as explained by Alfredo Manrique & Glenn Decker's Lab man is complicated, but IN FLASK kovachii must be kept below 75 F.

HABITAT - YES, Peter is right, Phrag kovachii is an intermediate to warm grower, it DOES experience temps into the low 90's F in the wild (34 +/- C)
The KEY from habitat is that in the valleys where it comes from there are long periods of time where the wind is near 60 mph (100kph). They can take heat if they have GOOD air movement. Now in habitat these 60 mph winds are surely slowed at ground level, but they are still in the range of what we would call a 'blustery day". Give your kovachii a location where there is enough air movement that the leaves are moving at least a little at all times.

Another habitat note, kovachii comes from an area where the soil pH has a mild alkaline reaction. Strongly acidic soils have proven the kiss of death. It grows in loose rock and on cliff faces where there is constant running water, usuall cool(ish) water. Do not use sphagnum or other acidic potting media.

They come from very wet habitat, on & in rubble along a stream bank. Plant is up, roots are able to go down into a consantly fresh water.

Personally I did not have good results with pure diatamite, but a bark mix, with bark, charcol & diatamite is giving better results for me.

Those are my thoughts.
Leo

 

[Bolero]

Whatever, I know that kovachii grow cooler than 15C. Lima is not a tropical climate despite the position on the planet and Lima gets down to 12C in winter - elevation about 1550m.

Keep in mind that kovachii can grow up to 600m above Lima and the winds get very cold at times at 2100m. So if Lima gets down to 12C in winter......do you think that at 2100m that it might get even colder at times?

 

[Clark]

How about growth rates. I know one plant doesn't equal a survey.

Bought mine in Feb. 2008. Tiny. 2 leaves that were a total of 2inches. Width of leaves were as wide as a paper match. I can say that most plants deflasked here were larger.
After 2yrs., plant 2 leaves total 6.25inches, width of leaves .875inch across.
I grow windowsill/sliding door/outside(weather permitting).

Do you folks have similiar experience with growth rate?
Thank you.

 

[gonewild]

Whatever, I know that kovachii grow cooler than 15C. Lima is not a tropical climate despite the position on the planet and Lima gets down to 12C in winter - elevation about 1550m.

Keep in mind that kovachii can grow up to 600m above Lima and the winds get very cold at times at 2100m. So if Lima gets down to 12C in winter......do you think that at 2100m that it might get even colder at times?

Careful when you "whatever".... ( do I see a hand up in the air? :wink

I did not realize that sea level was 1550m in Peru? Sorry but Lima is not at 1550m. It is near sea level.

Lima is on the western side of the Andes. The area is almost a desert with fog and cool temperatures but it does have a mild climate. It is not a cold city. Tropical plants like anthurium grow in peoples yards.

The kovachii habitat is on the east side of the Andes where the amazon jungle begins. When the winds blow it can be very warm and wet. Not to be assumed cold just because of elevation. 2100m on the eastern side of the Andes supports tropical plant growth.

Now just because the two main kovachii nurseries are located in Lima does not mean that the climate is ideal for kovachii. It just means that the two businessmen that got the permits lived and have their nurseries in Lima.
They grow kovachii right beside all of their other plants..cattleyas and even phalaenopsis. Also in a greenhouse where they can keep them warm.

Yes kovachii probably will grow at the cold temperatures you refer to but probably not as fast or good as in a warmer climate.

 

[gonewild]

The Nursery of Alfreado Manrique in Lima....

Orchids growing outside under shade screen, open to the Lima climate....
This picture was taken in the first week of June.
Notice the species growing in the outside environment.
Also notice the glass wall at the back.

This the the area behind the glass wall. It is the enclosed growing area where Alfreado's kovachii are kept.
It was warmer than the outside area.
This pictute was taken in October.

Here is one of his 5 original collected P.kovachii mother plants with seed pods set.

You can look at the species and growing areas and draw your own conclusions about the temperatures in Lima.
In my experience overall it has a very mild climate.