SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
This plant grows like a weed. Here is one of three divisions I have.
And a whole plant shot in a 4 inch aircone.
And a whole plant shot in a 4 inch aircone.
Phrag hincksianum 09
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O
ORG
Guest
Dear Rick,
why do you think that your plant is Phrag. hincksianum?
It looks like a Phrag. longifolium, perhaps the forma gracile.
Phrag. hincksianum was described by H.G.REICHENBACH f. in The Gardeners` Chronicle 16th. february 1878, n.s. 9, Seite 202 and normally seen as a synonym of Phrag. longifolium. Here the description:
CYPRIPEDIUM HINCKSIANUM, (in Original n. sp.)*
Mr Wallis knew of there being a Selenipedium, or, as Orchidists say, a Cypripedium, near Cape Darien, and took means to secure it. Dr.Seemann had also made the discovery; he sent me his specimens glued to stiff paper, and rather unexaminable: I believed it was my Selenipedium Hartwegii. Later Dr.Seemann found a few flowers used by Mr.Fitch for his representation in the Herald of Botany, and sent me them as a present. Then I saw that Mr. Fitch`s surprising representaion of the small angli onside, near the base of the lip, was well founded; and thus I understood its being new, and called it (Cypripedium) (selenipedium) dariense. Mr.Wallis telt much pleased at having found what he thought C.Hartwegii. And now it flowers it proves distinct from all its allies by its long narrow lip having an almost conical long shoe. It is distinct from C.dariense in the want of those just mentioned basilar teeth in the unguis of the lip. The long lip is exceeding curious (provided it is constant, as I exspect). The inflexed lateral part of the lip is remarkably thick, cartilaginous. Both sepals are whitish green with dark green partly reddish veins. Petals light greenish, with a deep greenish middle line and brown border at base. Tails totally brown. Lip light green, with small brown spots near base. Staminode green, with brown back sides. My later description is compiled from my dry herbarium materials, our living plants in Hamburg Botanic Garden, and a fresh specimen for which I have to thank a most scientific and energetic collector of Orchids, T.C.Hincks, Esq.Breckenbrough, Thirsk, who appears to have first flowered it, and to whom it is dedicated with great pleasure.
H.G.Rchb.f.
*Cypripedium Hincksianum (n.sp.) - Foliis ligulatis loratis coriaceis; pedunculo elato apice plurifloro racemoso; bracteis heliconiaceis seu carinate triangulis acuminatis complicatis; ovariis calvis; sepalo dorsali oblongo ligulato obtuse acuto, limbo crispulo; tepalis a basi lata angustissime caudatis; Labelli calceo elongato conico utrinque supra ostium tumore ancipiti cavo, ima basi edentulo; staminodio transverse rhombeo postice veelutino.
- Selenipedium Hincksianum. H.G.Rchb.f.
Perhaps more detailde pictures of the lip could help in determination, if there is really a difference in your plant.
Perhaps also other mebers could show other plants which are labeled as Phrag. hincksinaum.
With best greetings
Olaf
why do you think that your plant is Phrag. hincksianum?
It looks like a Phrag. longifolium, perhaps the forma gracile.
Phrag. hincksianum was described by H.G.REICHENBACH f. in The Gardeners` Chronicle 16th. february 1878, n.s. 9, Seite 202 and normally seen as a synonym of Phrag. longifolium. Here the description:
CYPRIPEDIUM HINCKSIANUM, (in Original n. sp.)*
Mr Wallis knew of there being a Selenipedium, or, as Orchidists say, a Cypripedium, near Cape Darien, and took means to secure it. Dr.Seemann had also made the discovery; he sent me his specimens glued to stiff paper, and rather unexaminable: I believed it was my Selenipedium Hartwegii. Later Dr.Seemann found a few flowers used by Mr.Fitch for his representation in the Herald of Botany, and sent me them as a present. Then I saw that Mr. Fitch`s surprising representaion of the small angli onside, near the base of the lip, was well founded; and thus I understood its being new, and called it (Cypripedium) (selenipedium) dariense. Mr.Wallis telt much pleased at having found what he thought C.Hartwegii. And now it flowers it proves distinct from all its allies by its long narrow lip having an almost conical long shoe. It is distinct from C.dariense in the want of those just mentioned basilar teeth in the unguis of the lip. The long lip is exceeding curious (provided it is constant, as I exspect). The inflexed lateral part of the lip is remarkably thick, cartilaginous. Both sepals are whitish green with dark green partly reddish veins. Petals light greenish, with a deep greenish middle line and brown border at base. Tails totally brown. Lip light green, with small brown spots near base. Staminode green, with brown back sides. My later description is compiled from my dry herbarium materials, our living plants in Hamburg Botanic Garden, and a fresh specimen for which I have to thank a most scientific and energetic collector of Orchids, T.C.Hincks, Esq.Breckenbrough, Thirsk, who appears to have first flowered it, and to whom it is dedicated with great pleasure.
H.G.Rchb.f.
*Cypripedium Hincksianum (n.sp.) - Foliis ligulatis loratis coriaceis; pedunculo elato apice plurifloro racemoso; bracteis heliconiaceis seu carinate triangulis acuminatis complicatis; ovariis calvis; sepalo dorsali oblongo ligulato obtuse acuto, limbo crispulo; tepalis a basi lata angustissime caudatis; Labelli calceo elongato conico utrinque supra ostium tumore ancipiti cavo, ima basi edentulo; staminodio transverse rhombeo postice veelutino.
- Selenipedium Hincksianum. H.G.Rchb.f.
Perhaps more detailde pictures of the lip could help in determination, if there is really a difference in your plant.
Perhaps also other mebers could show other plants which are labeled as Phrag. hincksinaum.
With best greetings
Olaf
E
Ernie
Guest
Cool discussion start. Gossip in the US is that (longifolium forma/var) hincksianum is the more colorful form of longifolium and gracile is the daintier, "blonde" version of the species. I claim no authority, just passing on what I understand as the hobbyist viewpoint. Will be interested to hear "the truth".
-Ernie
-Ernie
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
All I can say Olaf about the origins of this plant is that I bought it at a show in May of 99. The tag at that time read: Phrag longifolium var hincksianum 'Wolf River' X 'Jealousy' I don't know anything about either parent, thou Wolf River, I believe use to be the name of an orchid firm. The plant itself, is smaller then my other "standard" longifolium that came from OZ. The flower of both plants are very similar in shape and color except the hincks is again, smaller. See link from last year's flowering.
G
goldenrose
Guest
I do like the petite gracile version. The plant I have labeled as Hincksianum is on the large size.
Here's the first blooming.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12571&page=2
Although there's still 2 growths, the leafspan is easily 24".
Here's the first blooming.
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12571&page=2
Although there's still 2 growths, the leafspan is easily 24".
B
Bobc
Guest
very nice.
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
OK, for some reason my previous post will not allow me to "edit" to add the link I wanted. Here it is:http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6774
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Mine can bloom on small pieces that are grass-like but as it adds growth, the growths get wider, larger.
O
ORG
Guest
Also when I think that Phrag. hincksianum is only a synonym of Phrag. longifolium here some words about the plants labeled as hincksianum.
The smalll growing grasslike plants are Phrag. longifolium forma gracile. In the original description of hincksianum is written: Foliis ligulatis loratis coriaceis, means leaves ligulate and leathery, so the small one cannot be hincksianum.
The differences to the normal longifolium shall be:
And now it flowers it proves distinct from all its allies by its long narrow lip having an almost conical long shoe. It is distinct from C.dariense in the want of those just mentioned basilar teeth in the unguis of the lip. The long lip is exceeding curious (provided it is constant, as I exspect). The inflexed lateral part of the lip is remarkably thick, cartilaginous.
I have not seen anything like this in the pictures of the plants which you show as hincksianum.
Also these differences you can find also in populations of Phrag. longifolium
Best greetings
Olaf
The smalll growing grasslike plants are Phrag. longifolium forma gracile. In the original description of hincksianum is written: Foliis ligulatis loratis coriaceis, means leaves ligulate and leathery, so the small one cannot be hincksianum.
The differences to the normal longifolium shall be:
And now it flowers it proves distinct from all its allies by its long narrow lip having an almost conical long shoe. It is distinct from C.dariense in the want of those just mentioned basilar teeth in the unguis of the lip. The long lip is exceeding curious (provided it is constant, as I exspect). The inflexed lateral part of the lip is remarkably thick, cartilaginous.
I have not seen anything like this in the pictures of the plants which you show as hincksianum.
Also these differences you can find also in populations of Phrag. longifolium
Best greetings
Olaf
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
I do like the flowers, whatever the name, and when the plants are so easy to grow, all the better 
!!! Jean
!!! Jean
B
biothanasis
Guest
I do like the flowers, whatever the name, and when the plants are so easy to grow, all the better
My point too!!!
SlipperFan
Addicted
Truthfully, I don't think I understand the subtleties. Well-grown plant, in any case.
Rick
Well-Known Member
Great looking flower Rick.
Phrags have been busting my chops as far as trying to ID anything by plant habit.
I find that the growth habits of my richteri, pearcei, longifolium changes +- 100% if I change lighting, potting mix or fertilizer regime.
Over the last 5 years my richteri has produced growths with 12" leaf spans to 24" spans, and now back to 14"spans.
I have a pearcei (since 2001) has produce nothing but narrow leaved growths with at the most 14" spans, and since the Mg supplementation has produced some monster growths pushing 20" with 3/4" wide leaves!
The petal span on my longifolium flowers probably varies as much as 30% during its blooming season (which has gone on for almost a full year now). It too is producing very long and wide leaves since the Mg spike.
I'm seeing a lot of cultural plasticity in my phrags.
Phrags have been busting my chops as far as trying to ID anything by plant habit.
I find that the growth habits of my richteri, pearcei, longifolium changes +- 100% if I change lighting, potting mix or fertilizer regime.
Over the last 5 years my richteri has produced growths with 12" leaf spans to 24" spans, and now back to 14"spans.
I have a pearcei (since 2001) has produce nothing but narrow leaved growths with at the most 14" spans, and since the Mg supplementation has produced some monster growths pushing 20" with 3/4" wide leaves!
The petal span on my longifolium flowers probably varies as much as 30% during its blooming season (which has gone on for almost a full year now). It too is producing very long and wide leaves since the Mg spike.
I'm seeing a lot of cultural plasticity in my phrags.
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Interesting thoughts Rick. I too, have had strange goings on with my Phrags but only longifolium and it's hybrids since the introduction of Mg (Epson's Salts). Freaky flower and growth formations have occured. A P. Praying Mantis has developed varigation to the newest leaves and the once normal flower spike. The longifolium has been blooming with a completely flatten pouch and shrunken. My Intli's Tears bloomed a normal pairs of flowers on two spikes but by the time the Mg kicked in the second set were deformed. One flower had an extra tall dorsal with varigated streaks in it and the other was super dark, blood red flower with a skinny dorsal and no stami. I've backed off the higher concentration of Mg and the flowers seem to be returning to "normal". Time will tell.
Rick
Well-Known Member
I don't know if I'll get a chance to take a pic of this before wilt sets in, but I had two flowers on separate spikes (both normal with good color), but one is about 20% bigger in all flower dimensions than the other. Both spikes have produced several flowers, and they opened up about a week apart from each other, so Mg exposure should be the same. With all the subtle taxonomy of phrags based on differences in size, I just see too much variation in a single plant to get too excited about some of these ID's.
Aside from that single pearcei flower with two pouches I haven't seen any other anomalies.
Aside from that single pearcei flower with two pouches I haven't seen any other anomalies.
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
How funny, I just sent you a PM Rick about this thread and see you already bet me to it!
I'll have to shoot pics of these strange flowers and post them. One other interesting thing, I have seen no ill effects to any of the Paphs nor Phrags that don't have longifolium in their background.
I'll have to shoot pics of these strange flowers and post them. One other interesting thing, I have seen no ill effects to any of the Paphs nor Phrags that don't have longifolium in their background.
C
Clark
Guest
Sounds like Banner/Hulk syndrome.
My Allison Strohm and Pk seedling look a little freaky.
It is easy to see the point of no Mg vs. 1tablespoon/2gallon.
Great plant you have!
My Allison Strohm and Pk seedling look a little freaky.
It is easy to see the point of no Mg vs. 1tablespoon/2gallon.
Great plant you have!
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
anomalies in Phrags
Here are the PICs to the anomalies see after using Mg at too high of a concentration. I have the numbers at home and I can post them if need be.
First Phrag Inti's Tears, second spike, first flower normal, second very dark, no stami and very skinny dorsal.
Closeup. I had troubles with the focus but you can see the points I'm making.
Longifolium with the flattened pouch. This is an improvement over earlier flowers!
P Praying Mantis with it's varagated flower spike!
Here are the PICs to the anomalies see after using Mg at too high of a concentration. I have the numbers at home and I can post them if need be.
First Phrag Inti's Tears, second spike, first flower normal, second very dark, no stami and very skinny dorsal.
Closeup. I had troubles with the focus but you can see the points I'm making.
Longifolium with the flattened pouch. This is an improvement over earlier flowers!
P Praying Mantis with it's varagated flower spike!
Rick
Well-Known Member
What rate of Epsom salts were you using Rick?
I tapered mine off to about 1/4 - 1/8 tsp per gal with the weekly fertilizing back in early September. I throw a "dash" in the misting water that they may see every day.
Also I start with RO grade water. So there is no base Mg in that. Just about any normal surface water (for tap or well) can have a few ppm of Mg in it to start with, so other than for times of fast growth, I would expect a lower need of Mg.
I tapered mine off to about 1/4 - 1/8 tsp per gal with the weekly fertilizing back in early September. I throw a "dash" in the misting water that they may see every day.
Also I start with RO grade water. So there is no base Mg in that. Just about any normal surface water (for tap or well) can have a few ppm of Mg in it to start with, so other than for times of fast growth, I would expect a lower need of Mg.
