L
Lars Pedersen
Guest
Phragmipedium besseae, and dalessandroi.
Some thoughts and observations.
For a long time I have been wondering about the different types of Phragmipedium besseae, and dalessandroi, and the relationships between them.
It is my hope that some day soon, someone professional, with a much deeper knowledge in this subject than I have, will write a monograph on “the,besseae complex” and sort out all the issues regarding types, species and variations within this magnifisent group of plants.
There are just too many asumptions and false stories surrounding these plants.
In the mean time, I will try to contribute with my own thoughts and observations, knowing all too well that it probably raises more questions than it provides answers.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
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1.
dalessandroi.
Over the years there has been alot of discussion about wheather dalessandroi is a valid species or a variant.
I think the consensus today is that it is a valid species.
2.
besseae, Ecuador.
There seem to be a general consensus that there are 2 types. The “Paute type” and the “Chigllinda type” The first having wider and rounder petals, and the later having narrower sometimes slightly dropping petals.
My own observations:
First I must say I have not been to the habitat where the Paute population grows.
But I have visited the habitat of the “Chigllinda type”, and I must say I am quite surpriced how big the variation is.
There are - at the same location - growing both stolonous and non stolonous plants.
And also plants with both narrow and wide petals. Pictures below is from that location.
As far as I know, it was in this area that dalessandroi was discovered. Could the large non stolonous plant on the first picture be a dalessandroi ?
Or have I got the geography wrong ?
Is the same variations present at the Paute habitat ?
3.
besseae, Peru
I have the impression that the Peru type is more compact than the Ecuador type, and more red in color.
Is that a fact, or is it because of selected clones available ?
Is the Peru type concistently non stolonous or is it showing the same variation as the Ecuador type ?.
4.
besseae flava
The yellow type was found somewhere in Peru.
As far as I know only one plant was found.
Is it stolonous or non sotlonous, and is it consistant in that manor ?
5.
dalessandroi
This ecuadorian species, is (or was?) found only in a very limited area in southern Eccuador.
There has been alot of discussion over the years regarding these plants.
But I still have few questions.
Are there both multifloral, and sequentilaly flowering forms of this species ?
Are the multiflorals “just” well grown plants, or is it genetically determined ?
If it is genetical, are they still the same species ?
Here is a picture of my multifloral type.
6.
Natural hybrids
There has been alot of talking about a natural hybrid between besseae and dalessandroi (Phragmipedium Jersey).
Is that a known fact or is it an asumption ?
Has mixed populations of besseae and dalessandroi ever been documented ?
From what I have seen of the habitat where they grow, it could be a probleme mixing the species if they dont grow quite close together.
The terrain is very mountainous, and “just in the next valley”, does not mean that both are within reach for a polinator.
Well this is it for now
Lars
Some thoughts and observations.
For a long time I have been wondering about the different types of Phragmipedium besseae, and dalessandroi, and the relationships between them.
It is my hope that some day soon, someone professional, with a much deeper knowledge in this subject than I have, will write a monograph on “the,besseae complex” and sort out all the issues regarding types, species and variations within this magnifisent group of plants.
There are just too many asumptions and false stories surrounding these plants.
In the mean time, I will try to contribute with my own thoughts and observations, knowing all too well that it probably raises more questions than it provides answers.
Please correct me if I am wrong.
------------------------------------------ <<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>> -----------------------------------------
1.
dalessandroi.
Over the years there has been alot of discussion about wheather dalessandroi is a valid species or a variant.
I think the consensus today is that it is a valid species.
2.
besseae, Ecuador.
There seem to be a general consensus that there are 2 types. The “Paute type” and the “Chigllinda type” The first having wider and rounder petals, and the later having narrower sometimes slightly dropping petals.
My own observations:
First I must say I have not been to the habitat where the Paute population grows.
But I have visited the habitat of the “Chigllinda type”, and I must say I am quite surpriced how big the variation is.
There are - at the same location - growing both stolonous and non stolonous plants.
And also plants with both narrow and wide petals. Pictures below is from that location.
As far as I know, it was in this area that dalessandroi was discovered. Could the large non stolonous plant on the first picture be a dalessandroi ?
Or have I got the geography wrong ?
Is the same variations present at the Paute habitat ?
3.
besseae, Peru
I have the impression that the Peru type is more compact than the Ecuador type, and more red in color.
Is that a fact, or is it because of selected clones available ?
Is the Peru type concistently non stolonous or is it showing the same variation as the Ecuador type ?.
4.
besseae flava
The yellow type was found somewhere in Peru.
As far as I know only one plant was found.
Is it stolonous or non sotlonous, and is it consistant in that manor ?
5.
dalessandroi
This ecuadorian species, is (or was?) found only in a very limited area in southern Eccuador.
There has been alot of discussion over the years regarding these plants.
But I still have few questions.
Are there both multifloral, and sequentilaly flowering forms of this species ?
Are the multiflorals “just” well grown plants, or is it genetically determined ?
If it is genetical, are they still the same species ?
Here is a picture of my multifloral type.
6.
Natural hybrids
There has been alot of talking about a natural hybrid between besseae and dalessandroi (Phragmipedium Jersey).
Is that a known fact or is it an asumption ?
Has mixed populations of besseae and dalessandroi ever been documented ?
From what I have seen of the habitat where they grow, it could be a probleme mixing the species if they dont grow quite close together.
The terrain is very mountainous, and “just in the next valley”, does not mean that both are within reach for a polinator.
Well this is it for now
Lars
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