Paphs in orchiata

[labskaus]

Too bad, isn´t it! I had mail contact with Besgrow who produces Orchiata and apparently the product would need to be heat treated in order to be allowed into Europe.

Very sensible approach of the authorities. The worst thing that could happen to European agriculture is that the Kiwis reintroduce the pests we brought to them in the past 150 years.

 

[Ernie]

I've heard it all before. I heard experts claim that paphs should be grown in the smallest, deepest pots possible. I've heard about all kinds of miracle fertilizers and potting mixes. There were even ''scientific'' experiments to prove one thing or another, and always done on a very small scale, scientifically insignificant, and never ever reproduced by others. In the end, what's important is what works for you, in your climate, in your house or your greenhouse, and depending on the time you have to take care of the plants. And whatever you do, there's always a number of plants that end up on the trash pile.
To me, observation on how your plants adapt to your situation is the most important factor, but it's a long learning process.

Spot on, Shiva.

 

[Paphman910]

...
( and I work for them as their technical expert too but that was a consequence of their product being really excellent...)
...

Are you the nerdy fellow with glasses pictured on Besgrow website!

oke:

Paphman910

 

[Justin]

I've heard it all before. I heard experts claim that paphs should be grown in the smallest, deepest pots possible. I've heard about all kinds of miracle fertilizers and potting mixes. There were even ''scientific'' experiments to prove one thing or another, and always done on a very small scale, scientifically insignificant, and never ever reproduced by others. In the end, what's important is what works for you, in your climate, in your house or your greenhouse, and depending on the time you have to take care of the plants. And whatever you do, there's always a number of plants that end up on the trash pile.
To me, observation on how your plants adapt to your situation is the most important factor, but it's a long learning process.

I have recently noticed that roth seedlings kept in 2" pots too long can get stunted and not grow as fast as they should. But I have lots of other cultural sins that might account for small growths...such as not watering frequently enough. I also grow under metal halide lamps, and I think this is a factor in having roth growths be too compact. I am thinking about switching one of my lights to HPS in hopes of getting larger growths. But I am able to bloom them pretty well under MH lamps so they are still pretty good.

In the meantime, I need to get around to potting up some of my plants that have waited too long.

 

[chrismende]

A question re Orchiata - I've been using it for about a year now and like it very much. I had stored a couple bags of the coarse bark and needed to re-wet it, so soaked it overnight. Does the treatment material get floated off when I do that? I've kept the water to use on the plants, since my assumption is that it will contain a fair amount of calcium and magnesium and possibly mycorhyzae too.

 

[gonewild]

If the treatment soaks off overnight then it is not a treatment that is going to make a difference anyway.

 

[Ray]

I agree, Lance.

Being watered heavily and frequently does not seem to detract from it, so I doubt an overnight soak will do too much.

 

[polyantha]

"When they have no more space to get the roots running?" That's a bit odd. Don't many people grow roths in small pots so that the roots wind up round and round within the pots? Many multis do that I believe. Not sure about hangianum...

That's exacly what healthy multis do!

 

[Kevin]

Paphman910 - No distribution in Canada. Your government thinks it is protecting your own forest industries, so won't allow it in.

I would say fact. The U.S. has rules too. Our lumber has to be heat treated to be allowed into the U.S. Maybe no one is treating this bark? Even if it was heat treated, it's not the bark that would be a problem for our forest industries - it's the economy.

Too bad, isn´t it! I had mail contact with Besgrow who produces Orchiata and apparently the product would need to be heat treated in order to be allowed into Europe.

Same thing in Canada.

 

[goldenrose]

What's the difference between Orchidata & Rexius? Rexius seems to claim the same attributes.

 

[SlipperFan]

What's the difference between Orchidata & Rexius? Rexius seems to claim the same attributes.

Rexius is heat-treated fir bark which needs to be soaked before using. Lasts for about a year.

Orchiata is from Monterey Pine in New Zealand. It is sun-aged, which supposedly seals it and makes it less permeable and so lasts longer (two years or so). Does not need to be soaked before using. I found the dust on it to be very thick, so I rinse it good before I use it.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Rexius killed a large portion of my paph collection several years ago. It is very splintery and painful to use, and breaks down very quickly. That said, even as my paphs hated it, my phrags loved it.

 

[Ray]

Rexius is fir bark that is steam-treated to extract resins that might be harmful to your plants. Of course, that also degrades it into something far less stable.

After the aging Dot mentioned, the Orchiata bark is sprayed with a dolomite solution, which they claim stabilizes the pH, and provides plenty of Ca and Mg.

Based upon my observation so far, I'd say a 2-year life span is an underestimate. I have heard some claim 10 years, but I really have to doubt that, if for no other reason that the stuff - if still intact - would be saturated with fertilizer and plant waste residues.

If I recall correctly, the containers entering the US are fumigated, not heat treated.

 

[goldenrose]

Thanks guys!
Our OC has been using Rexius as the base, adding itty bitty lava pebbles & coarse perlite. I haven't found it to be splintery, I would call it seedling size & pretty uniform. There are some club members that soak, others do not & both are pleased with the results. I will be very disappointed if it only holds up a year, then it's not going to be worth the price difference, time will tell!
and need to locate some Orchidata & do my own test trials!

 

[SlipperFan]

...
and need to locate some Orchidata & do my own test trials!

Ray carries it.

 

[Rick]

After the aging Dot mentioned, the Orchiata bark is sprayed with a dolomite solution, which they claim stabilizes the pH, and provides plenty of Ca and Mg.

Sounds like a way of combating excess K from fertilizers.

 

[cnycharles]

speaking of, I was wondering if using a seedling complete fertilizer like 13-2-13 mixed with calcium nitrate and/or alternating mixing with 20-10-10 would help to keep the potassium level down compared to the nitrogen? or just using the calcium nitrate by itself fairly often with whatever other fertilizer is being used would be helpful?

 

[Rick]

speaking of, I was wondering if using a seedling complete fertilizer like 13-2-13 mixed with calcium nitrate and/or alternating mixing with 20-10-10 would help to keep the potassium level down compared to the nitrogen? or just using the calcium nitrate by itself fairly often with whatever other fertilizer is being used would be helpful?

The MSU pure water fert mix I use is 12-6-13 w/Ca 7, and Mg 2 At recommended dose rate of 1/2 tsp/gal.

I presently use 1/4tsp of MSU, 1/4 tsp of Calcium nitrate, and 1/4 tsp of MgSO4. Also instead of "pure" RO water, I'm using about 10% of my well water to start out with very soft water with a hardness of ~30mg/L as CaCO3. I'd need to dig out my notes, but if memory is correct, the above combination, N should still be about 12 and phosphorous down to 3. But K is now about 6-7 with Ca around 14 and Mg around 6-7.

So your first notion of cutting the 13-2-13 with calcium nitrate is somewhat in line with what I'm doing, but I'd boost the Mg a bit too.

When the winter slows kick in, I'm thinking about just using a little calcium nitrate/mag sulfate until maybe late January, then maybe goose them with a shot of Protekt in Feb/March.

One thing that came up in one of the papers I found is the high levels of silicates in leaf litter (which often is higher than K, but less than Ca). The silicate levels in Protekt also exceeds the K (probably since potash is just burned up plant material anyway).

 

[swamprad]

I am making the switch to orchiata. Went in with a group of friends in my society, and we are getting a pallet delivered this week. Xavier mentioned that he uses straight orchiata, no perlite or anything else. Many of the growers in Hawaii mix sponge rock with it. I would like to use straight orchiata, and would like to hear from others who use straight orchiata successfully. Also, I traditionally put styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of my medium and larger pots of cattleyas, but am considering not using peanuts with the orchiata. Comments?

 

[Marc]

I can't comment on orchiata but I have enough troubles with keeping my media in my pot the first few waterings after repotting with new bark. Wouldn't styrofoam in the bottom increase the chance of substrate and perhaps the plant being pushed out when watering?