Paphiopedilum sulivongii

[DrLeslieEe]

I was surprised to see this budding last month with one growth. Finally opened 2 days ago with a very deep black maroon dorsal unlike others in this group I’ve seen. Quite rare now in the market (from poor culture in heat) and almost none existent in the wild (Laos) due to over-collection.

A very controversial name, it now is classified by Kew WCSP as Paphiopedilum gratrixianum var sulivongii, moving it away from the initial barbigerum section. This is surprising as it is more similar to the latter group. Must be due to DNA analysis.

NS 7.5 cm, DS 3.5 cm
(I think it’s fully expanded? Will update if it gets larger)

Division from Eggshells (Thanks Ibn).

Originally I thought this was a vejvarutianum lol. My coccineum is in bud (I think) and I hope it blooms in time for comparative analysis.

Culture: open bark/perlite/charcoal mix, topped with NZ spagnum moss, heavy watering, warm summers, cool winters (nights 15C), T5 lights bright (1500 fc)

 

[blondie]

It's a very nice bloom

 

[musa]

Beautiful!
At least the leaves do resemble those of gratrixianum. Amazing that it has already flowering size...

 

[GuRu]

It's a lovely flower Leslie, no doubt, but a strange classification. But you are right and I looked it up....KEW says P. gratrixianum var. sulivongii

 

[SuperPaph]

This Paph is exceptional Leslie!! What an incredible color degradation in dorsal!!!! I like it a lot!!!

 

[werner.freitag]

Leslie, nice pictures ! A not so good picture of one of mine sulivongii. A bought a couple of collected plants not so far from the Laos border some year ago , not knowing what it was. After being a little disappointed about this not so beautiful Paph , I found out what it is. I promise better photos in future. Here it seems to be an easy bloomer but not a strong grower.

 

[Guldal]

Gorgeous flower, Leslie!

... you are right and I looked it up....KEW says P. gratrixianum var. sulivongii

You know my stand point, Rudolf: it's not interesting WHAT Kew says - what is interesting is, WHY they say it?

Anyone got some reference in the litterature on, why someone - and who? - transferred var. sullivongii to gratrixianum? And, maybe, also on whether this position is considered debatable, or whether it's a decission, that enjoys widespread consensus in the scientific community?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Gorgeous flower, Leslie!


You know my stand point, Rudolf: it's not interesting WHAT Kew says - what is interesting is, WHY they say it?

Anyone got some reference in the litterature on, why someone - and who? - transferred var. sullivongii to gratrixianum? And, maybe, also on whether this position is considered debatable, or whether it's a decission, that enjoys widespread consensus in the scientific community?

If you look on the WCSP under search for sulivongii, it will give you literature footnote to the paper that ‘proves’ this transfer.

 

[Guldal]

You know my stand point, Rudolf: it's not interesting WHAT Kew says - what is interesting is, WHY they say it?

Anyone got some reference in the litterature on, why someone - and who? - transferred var. sullivongii to gratrixianum? And, maybe, also on whether this position is considered debatable, or whether it's a decission, that enjoys widespread consensus in the scientific community?

Sorry, Rudolf, I was too hasty in my former remark - and instead of editing it, I've decided to leave it as a pillar of shame over my hastiness!

Following your link, I found the reference, I asked for, and the transferral was actually done by one of my Paph-heroes, Leonid Averyanov, and published in Die Orchidee, 2015, 1.

Not many clicks away, I got an answer, at least partially, to my other question about the transferrals status in the botanic community, as Averyanov in 2017 together with Olaf Gruß (ORG in these pages) and two vietnamese authors published an overview of the diversity of the Paph. gratrixianum - Paph. daoense complexes in Indochina ("Die Vielfalt des Paphiopedilum gratrixianum- Paph. daoense Komplexes in Indochina" in Die Orchidee, 2017, 3). A russian, a German, two vietnamese should count for something.
Sometimes the taxonomic articles in Die Orchidee are published bilingual (German/English) - this very interesting overview article sadly, though is only in German. For German readers you can find it here: https://www.researchgate.net/public...ochina/link/59253226a6fdcc4443145fd5/download

 

[Guldal]

If you look on the WCSP under search for sulivongii, it will give you literature footnote to the paper that ‘proves’ this transfer.

Leslie, your post arrived, while I was writing the above - what can I say, but I stand shamefully corrected!

 

[southernbelle]

Leslie, your post arrived, while I was writing the above - what can I say, but I stand shamefully corrected!

You don’t mess with Dr. Leslie.

 

[werner.freitag]

I call it Paphiopedilum sulivongii in future. Checked the literature again , it is not convincing !
Compare gratrixianum to barbigerum , sulivongii and coccineum . They have not much in common.
There is a need for solid criteria for taxonomits. But without it is more interesting...........................
Have a nice Sunday

 

[GuRu]

Sorry, Rudolf, I was too hasty in my former remark - and instead of editing it, I've decided to leave it as a pillar of shame over my hastiness!

Following your link, I found the reference, I asked for, and the transferral was actually done by one of my Paph-heroes, Leonid Averyanov, and published in Die Orchidee, 2015, 1.....

Jens, thank for your remarks but when I wrote/write "KEW says" this isn't meant literally. Of course there are taxonomists who decribe and rearrange species in the realm of plants. In my eyes its KEW which bundles those information and 'says' in the end which description is the latest valid one. I own the print editions of 'DIE ORCHIDEE' and surely I read the article of the rearrangement of Paph. sulivongii there some years ago.....but didn't really keep it in mind. That's why I was slightly surprised when I read it in Leslie's thread.

 

[werner.freitag]

the article

 

[NYEric]

I wish there was something next to it that we could use for a size comparison!