Paphiopedilum druryi
- Thread starter fibre
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Are you sure it's a straight druryi?? It might be a hybrid - at least in my eyes!!
J
John Boy
Guest
it's this typical villosum x druryi!!!
This is a very fine, and very rare Hybird, and quite certainly not what you wanted Fibre?! Should you be interested to loose it again: I'd be very happy to find you something on my tables in return!
Thanks for showing!
JB
This is a very fine, and very rare Hybird, and quite certainly not what you wanted Fibre?! Should you be interested to loose it again: I'd be very happy to find you something on my tables in return!
Thanks for showing!
JB
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Def. not straight druryi .
emydura
Well-Known Member
Yes, it doesn't look quite right. Whatever, it is stunning.
David
David
KyushuCalanthe
Just call me Tom
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Nice rich colors!
SlipperFan
Addicted
I like the flower -- but my first thought when I saw the picture was that it's not druryi.
Ohh, I was quite sure, that you all would cry it is not a straight druryi! :clap:
I thougt the same, as the bud opened. I thougt it is druryi x exul, because of the big synsepalum .
But Willi Kentner told me, he got this plant many many years ago. It was a natural collection from the far South of India. And there grows no villosum or exul for sure!
But vice versa that dosn't prove it to be a straight P. druryi!!
Obviously Willi Kentner wasn't the collector and so it has been at least a 1+x hand plant for him and on the other hand you and I know:
-records can get lost
-tags can get mixed off ......and so on.
Don't get me wrong it is a beautiful flower but I doubt it to be straight P. druryi!???
P
paphjoint
Guest
Hi,
The plant is definitely not a druryi. A real druryi should look like this
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16055&highlight=druryi
Unfortunately nurseries will sell plants with fake names - they are making business not botanics.......
The plant is definitely not a druryi. A real druryi should look like this
http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16055&highlight=druryi
Unfortunately nurseries will sell plants with fake names - they are making business not botanics.......
Yeah, I got to hear the same story, that this type was collected some 300 miles north of the normal druryi habitat and that it was an intermediate form with villosum influence. The collected material was said to be obtained by a botanical garden in Eastern Europe and further distributed west-wards through exchange in good old iron curtain times.
Yours is a really nice flower of Winnieanum (and unlikely x winnieanum).
Yours is a really nice flower of Winnieanum (and unlikely x winnieanum).
Sorry labskaus, yours is a different story. I've seen plants and flowers of that Eastern Europe stuff and they look quite different! The leafs are curved - not straight, and a little bit 'floppy'. The flowers are much more brownisch and pale with 'color-divided' petals as it is typical for villosum-hybrids.
Offer: if the plant is established, I will self it by its next flowering. So you all can get a flask and we will see, what is coming out ...
Very interesting palnt...probably hybrid..... I will also bet x exul....
But can also be an area variant druryi...the difference is in dorsal white margination that is first time I see(but typical exul)cause for the over parts of the flower....there are some around with different forms and colours...ex:
Paphiopedilum druryii 'Marriott Monarch' AM/AOS
But can also be an area variant druryi...the difference is in dorsal white margination that is first time I see(but typical exul)cause for the over parts of the flower....there are some around with different forms and colours...ex:
Paphiopedilum druryii 'Marriott Monarch' AM/AOS
B
biothanasis
Guest
Very nice!
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Hybrid with fake story to sell the plant, IMHO. Is it open all the way at the time of this pic?
The seller is really a very serious businessman!
At the time, the pic is done, the flower was fully opened for about two weeks.
P
paphjoint
Guest
please define serious businessman :rollhappy:
You should trust our fellow members - what they see is what it is.
You should trust our fellow members - what they see is what it is.
Leo Schordje
wilted blossom
This goes to the discussion on another thread. Several issues arise.
1.) Voucher of the provenance of the plant. I'm certain Fibre is telling us exactly what he was told, so as such, the truth. Reasonably likely Kenntner is telling us exactly what he was told. But was the original infrmation truthful? Maybe.
2.) Without the collection location information, accurate enough to point to a map and say, within a reasonable number of kilometers or miles that this is where it came from, we have to work with reasonable guesses as to the veracity of the 'wild' collected status of the plant. The issue is; does this plant represent a sample of a population that exists in the wild?
3.) Assume that it does indeed represent a valid sample of a particular wild population. Now what do we do with it? The downfall of modern taxonomy is the "Essentialist" approach, in that there is little or no mechanism for dealing with real plants that deviate from the 'Ideal', in this case druyii. Clearly it does not fit druryi in the strict sense. So what is it? and how do we figure out what it is?
4.) ASSUME (and this is not verified) it does represent a natural wild population. Current distribution of species is not necessarily the same as distribution in the past. Say 9,000 years ago, this is recent enough that most of the species then were likely more similar than not to the current modern species. At that time, prior to extensive human deforestation, distributions of species could have been wider. Exul and villosum may have had more outlier populations. As true with druyii. Back then natural hybrids could have been occuring. Later drought and deforestation would then isolate populations and these remnant populations would then be isolated. These interbreeding isolated population would have genes from earlier occasional natural hybrids. The genes would get spread around in the population so that all the plants of the group are more similar to each other than any other population. This IS NOT the same as a natural hybrid in the traditional Linean sense. Gene introgression is the modern synthesis term for it. The problem is we don't have an easy mechanism for naming these populations, in tradition taxonomy. If you had the place name, the best way to label the plant would be Paph druyii of the (insert place name here) population.
This confusion is the tragic effect of not having collection location information preserved with each specific plant.
1.) Voucher of the provenance of the plant. I'm certain Fibre is telling us exactly what he was told, so as such, the truth. Reasonably likely Kenntner is telling us exactly what he was told. But was the original infrmation truthful? Maybe.
2.) Without the collection location information, accurate enough to point to a map and say, within a reasonable number of kilometers or miles that this is where it came from, we have to work with reasonable guesses as to the veracity of the 'wild' collected status of the plant. The issue is; does this plant represent a sample of a population that exists in the wild?
3.) Assume that it does indeed represent a valid sample of a particular wild population. Now what do we do with it? The downfall of modern taxonomy is the "Essentialist" approach, in that there is little or no mechanism for dealing with real plants that deviate from the 'Ideal', in this case druyii. Clearly it does not fit druryi in the strict sense. So what is it? and how do we figure out what it is?
4.) ASSUME (and this is not verified) it does represent a natural wild population. Current distribution of species is not necessarily the same as distribution in the past. Say 9,000 years ago, this is recent enough that most of the species then were likely more similar than not to the current modern species. At that time, prior to extensive human deforestation, distributions of species could have been wider. Exul and villosum may have had more outlier populations. As true with druyii. Back then natural hybrids could have been occuring. Later drought and deforestation would then isolate populations and these remnant populations would then be isolated. These interbreeding isolated population would have genes from earlier occasional natural hybrids. The genes would get spread around in the population so that all the plants of the group are more similar to each other than any other population. This IS NOT the same as a natural hybrid in the traditional Linean sense. Gene introgression is the modern synthesis term for it. The problem is we don't have an easy mechanism for naming these populations, in tradition taxonomy. If you had the place name, the best way to label the plant would be Paph druyii of the (insert place name here) population.
This confusion is the tragic effect of not having collection location information preserved with each specific plant.
G
goldenrose
Guest
Good idea!...Offer: if the plant is established, I will self it by its next flowering. So you all can get a flask and we will see, what is coming out ...
I, too, love the flower, but would guess exul x druryi. Any chance we could get a pic of the plant?
Interesting post Leo, you make some very logical/possible points, unfortunately it's not helping fibre.:-(
Thank you goldenrose, but I need no help. As I bought this plant, I wasn't looking for a druryi (I have an other one). I took this plant, because of its couriosity. It was in bud and it had a long stem and very small and short leaves. And now, the flower is great, wether it is a druryi or a druryi x something.
I completely agree with Leo! I will try to verify the information about the collection location etc. next week (if possible).
Ns of the flower is 6 cm, leafhigh 18 cm, leaves are about 2,6 cm broad. The stem is 24 cm long.
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