Paph breeding questions

[The Orchid Boy]

I have some paph breeding questions.

When pollinating, if one or both of the parents usually have good flower form and you use the pollen of a flower that didn't turn out well, will the seedling be more likely to have inferior flowers?

I have a P. delenatii (P. delenatii 'Half and Half' x P. delenatii 'dunkie #6'). What is involved in registering a clinal name? And would all the plants from this cross have the same clonal name or not?

Thanks, I may have more questions later.

 

[wjs2nd]

If the inferior bloom happened on a normally nicely bloomed plant, then I would say it shouldn't affect it's offspring. The inferior bloom could just be from a change in growing conditions.

Clonal name are usually given to awarded orchids. However, you can give your orchid a clonal name for breeding purposes. It just won't be officially registered.
I have never had a judged orchid thought, so I believe this is correct. Good luck

 

[ehanes7612]

it seems to me that breeding for what we consider superior/inferior flowers is hit or miss , no matter what parents you use...sure,you can increase the odds of greater saturation of color and size with certain breeding but for form and shape ?...it's just a guess but from what i have seen the odds of getting the form you want is a huge crapshoot...and doesnt necessarily increase with parents that display the form that gets awards

 

[The Orchid Boy]

So does an orchid have to be awarded to have an official clonal name? Because I know of a few orchids that have clonal names and they aren't awarded like Pot. Memoria Irene Feil 'Ruby Red', Onc. Sharry Baby 'Sweet Fragrance', and Onc. Sharry Baby 'Red Honey'.

 

[ehanes7612]

you can give any plant a clonal name but the only way its really official (documented with an entity of bureaucratic authority) is if it's awarded and of course awarded plants have to have clonal names..at least that's my understanding

 

[Rick]

you can give any plant a clonal name but the only way its really official (documented with an entity of bureaucratic authority) is if it's awarded and of course awarded plants have to have clonal names..at least that's my understanding

The above is true for species.

I think there is a registry for hybrids that does not require awarding (kind of like putting a patent on it).

 

[Rick]

On the notion of passing on traits, not only is pretty random on the genetic basis, but flower form/color can vary with the age and health of the plant.
So what was "inferior" one year, may be pretty good in subsequent years.

So if you are breeding to develop award winning, competitive flowers. You probably would want to get a few blooming cycles out of breeding stock to ascertain the quality of the parents. And then you need to raise up a few dozen of the offspring to pick the best ones out. Some folks only pick up awarded broodstock in the first place, but it always ends up a crap-shoot with what might come out (which is why you need to bloom out a few dozen plants to get what you're looking for).

Slippers don't mericlone (yet), but that made a huge difference in the Catt and Phale market to mass produce xerox copies of awarded plants.

 

[cnycharles]

another point about the clonal name is, that if you divide your plant, then all of the parts are the same 'clone'. so, to make sure that all future owners of a piece of that original plant know what they're parts are, a clonal name is given. this way any awards given in the future to a different part of the 'clone' can thus be given to the other parts. it also helps if you are going to do some breeding, to know which clone you have... if the same clone has been used for breeding, or you get two plants and they turn out being the same clone, then as someone pointed out in a very recent thread somewhere else if you use both plants to create offspring, you have 'selfed' a single clone and not done an outcrossing.

if a plant has been given an award (or not), and you have a plant that has a certain clonal name when you got it, you shouldn't give it a different clonal name; if it's been given one it should be kept for that plant. anyone can give an un-named plant (without a given clonal name) a clonal name, for whatever reason. there is no group or entity that regulates what and when a clonal name is given, or what the name can be... or keeps track of them. any name can be used, as long as it hasn't already been used somewhere, before. there is always the chance that you might give a plant a clonal name that has already been used; if you give one to a plant and then find out that others already have that name, then you should change the name to something else

 

[The Orchid Boy]

So that Paph. delenatii I talked about earlier, I can name it for breeding or whatever reason right? And all the P. delenatii's from P. delenatii 'Half and Half' x P. delenatii 'dunkie #6' would have different clonal names if people decide to name them right? Thanks for helping me with this everyone!

 

[wjs2nd]

Yes, the offspring from this cross will not have clonal names and can be given names.

 

[slippertalker]

So does an orchid have to be awarded to have an official clonal name? Because I know of a few orchids that have clonal names and they aren't awarded like Pot. Memoria Irene Feil 'Ruby Red', Onc. Sharry Baby 'Sweet Fragrance', and Onc. Sharry Baby 'Red Honey'.

The first two both have an AM/AOS.......the last is probably a mericlone mutation from 'Sweet Fragrance' and was given the epithet to seperate it on the bench before it was also mericloned.