Paph. Albion pollen

[reivilos]

Hello,
I've got a strong paph Albion in bud right now. Does someone have Albion pollen in store?
Thanks,
Olivier

 

[TyroneGenade]

This is a 1922 grex. If someone else has a plant it is probably a division of the same clone. Just self your plant...

Crossing to Paph FC Puddle would be more interesting...

 

[tim]

I had at one time 4 clones of Albion: 'Wyldcourt', 'AM/RHS', 'Bodnant', and 'Chilton'. The clones 'Bodnant' and 'AM/RHS' are likely the same; the clone that parades itself around as 'FCC/RHS' is the 'Bodnant' clone as well. The unawarded clones 'Chilton' and 'Wyldcourt' are possibly the same, possibly from a more modern remake, given the number of plants from the Ratcliffe collection that ended up in Wyldcourt. I'm pretty sure it has been remade at least once in modern times, like late 1970s or early 1980s, and three additional clones, including and HCC in 1976 and two cultural awards in the 1990s, have been awarded by the AOS. Albion is a pretty simple cross, Astarte x niveum, and Astarte was well-distributed in California until at least the mid 1970s. Which clone do you have? I always thought a cross of Albion and Paeony, which also sometimes blooms in the summer, would be a good idea - the possibility of pink and summer complexes...

 

[fibre]

Why do you like to sib it? What do you hope for?
I like the idea of a cross with Paeony

 

[reivilos]

This is a 1922 grex. If someone else has a plant it is probably a division of the same clone. Just self your plant...

Crossing to Paph FC Puddle would be more interesting...

It's an unnamed cultivar from VL. Last time I saw them flowering in their greenhouse, the flowers were really different. Maybe they have different cultivars. I didn't check the labels.

I have F.C Puddle pollen though.

 

[reivilos]

Why do you like to sib it? What do you hope for?

To get more Albion !

Albion is a pretty simple cross, Astarte x niveum, and Astarte was well-distributed in California until at least the mid 1970s. Which clone do you have? I always thought a cross of Albion and Paeony, which also sometimes blooms in the summer, would be a good idea - the possibility of pink and summer complexes...

It's unnamed. I'm pretty sure they have different clones at VL.

Unfortunately, I don't have Paeony pollen, but I do have pollen from:
- F.C. Puddle
- Whitemoor
- bellatulum alba

Here what the plant looks like now:

 

[PaphMadMan]

I completely understand the interest in producing more of an older hybrid you are fond of, but there isn't much point looking for Albion pollen if you can't be sure it is a different clone. Does the plant have a cultivar name? Or do you at least know when and where it came from? Otherwise, if you are at least fairly sure it isn't from a selfing of Albion, a selfing makes more sense than getting pollen from another clone if that pollen might be lower quality from age or shipping.

The cross with F.C. Puddle was registered in 1967, Paph Farnsburg. I like that idea but apparently it wasn't very successful, no awards, no progeny.
Summer blooms might be a worthwhile goal, but that seems like the only reason to consider Paeony, the character of Albion would be lost completely.

If it was my plant I'd look for pollen from the best near-white complex with a lot of Brachy in it that I could get, something like In-Charm White, which should be easier to find than Albion pollen. Or maybe a green like Elfstone. Or an Albion ancestor (Astarte!) or progeny. But if I was really fond of my Albion I would probably go with the selfing.

 

[TyroneGenade]

I always thought a cross of Albion and Paeony, which also sometimes blooms in the summer, would be a good idea - the possibility of pink and summer complexes...

Hi Tim etc... I am going to hijack this thread. I'm also interested in summer complexes. What other complexes are known to flower in summer?

 

[fibre]

I thought I have heard that Albion 'FCC' / 'Bodnant' is a triploid and therefore nearly sterile. But I might be wrong. Does someone know more about this?

 

[fibre]

Wouldn't it be nice to put pollen of P. herrmannii on Albion? You would get a vigorous compact grower with the character of a primary. I guess some of its progenies would have a solid pink pouch and pink petals and lots of spots on the dorsal.

 

[Trithor]

So, what have you decided on?

 

[reivilos]

I still haven't made up my mind... the plant needs a few more weeks to bloom, so it's ok.

I might put my AOS subscription to use for once to see what has been done so far. I may end up go to the nursery for Albion pollen.
The thing is, we're rather short on (old) hybrids in the EU, so I'm tempted to propagate Albion rather than make an hypothetical new cross.

EDIT: I couldn't find any awarded progeny.

 

[PaphMadMan]

From OrchidWiz June 2014 update (has award records from quite a few organizations including AOS):

25 first generation progeny of Albion, 0 awards.
4 second generation progeny of Albion, 0 awards.
6 third generation progeny of Albion, 2 awards.
1 fourth generation progeny of Albion, 0 awards.

All of the third and fourth generation hybrids come through Christmas Snow.
Albion x Nirvana = Cinco
Cinco x Borodin = Christmas Snow

Awards in the third generation don't owe much to Albion, but the awards are:
Jade Lauren Wales 'Angela' AM/SAOC 84pts 2007, a white complex (Christmas Snow x White Knight)
Maggy Lefever 'Maggy' BM/DOG 2012, a pink complex (Crazy Horse x Christmas Snow)

Albion hasn't had a very prolific breeding line, or a good line for awards, but that's not the point. Go get the best Albion pollen you can or self yours and try for improved forms of a charming old classic.

 

[paworsport]

Hi Tim etc... I am going to hijack this thread. I'm also interested in summer complexes. What other complexes are known to flower in summer?

Some white from Hadley Cash : Color My World, Great Expectation and some hybrids with White Legacy, Icy Icy Wind too (some hybrids with Ice Castle),

 

[TyroneGenade]

Thanks Philippe. I see these are all "whites" with heavy Brachy influence.

 

[reivilos]

I've checked. All Albion in the nursery are divisions of the same cultivar.

 

[fibre]

Do you know which cultivar?
Unfortunately my Albion shows now sign of a bud

 

[reivilos]

It's an unnamed seedling from probably a long tome ago. It has flowered. I'll post the pic shortly.