Mix combination question

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gonewild

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Mahon said:
Lance,

I forgot about this... I once had a nice plant of Brassavola nodosa growing all over a fourth of coconut shell. It was a plant in which I got from Mr. Sanders, which he recieved from Selby Gardens in the early 1970's. The plant was at least 30 years on this nasty looking coconut piece... he showed me a specimen of Phalaenopsis hieroglyphica surrounding half a coconut. I was amazed, except that the mount is quite ugly... so I do know that orchids have grown on coconut shell...

Perhaps Xavier was describing deadly CHC for Paphs. and Phrags., because I now remember all the coconut mounted orchids. There was even Schom. brysiana on one... :)

-Pat

Exactly! Keep remembering and thinking.:poke:

I don't think Paphs and Phrags are going to have the toxic problem either. There just is no biological reason for it.

We can rule out the Phrag part as I have caudatum and pearcei growing in pure CHC for a couple years.

I think Xavier's problem was related to his growing environment. Do you know if he grew any control plants for his research?
 
M

Mahon

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gonewild said:
Exactly! Keep remembering and thinking.:poke:

I don't think Paphs and Phrags are going to have the toxic problem either. There just is no biological reason for it.

We can rule out the Phrag part as I have caudatum and pearcei growing in pure CHC for a couple years.

I think Xavier's problem was related to his growing environment. Do you know if he grew any control plants for his research?

I don't know... I am still awaiting a reply to yesterday's email to him (I always get the times confused from here and there...). If he can post here, there would be more of a discussion... perhaps there is a third follow-up on the research that I don't know about? But I do think conditions is a major factor for medium... :)

-Pat
 

Marco

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lienluu said:
Patrix,

You can ignore his annoying posts. This is what i've done. Just simply go to his profile and click on the "Add Mahon to Your Ignore List". It will ask you to confirm and once you do so, any and all posts from him will be omitted from what you see.

Of course, if someone quotes him, you will see the quote. But better than nothing.

Here is a link to his profile, towards the center top 1/3 of the page, you should see the Ignore feature:

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/member.php?u=111


Lien

Thanks Lien. This reply is a godsend.
 

Rick

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I did find a somewhat unrelated tidbit on Fusarium wilt which tied its control to soil pH (keep between 6 and 7), and using nitrate based fertilizers rather than ammonia based fertilizers.

I also found some product trial comparisons for control of various wilts and rots. The research found "positive effects" by a couple of products, but none of the results were statistically significant from doing nothing or treating with water.:rollhappy: :rollhappy:

This info is tangentially related to the CHC issue since the type and age of the base organic media a person uses in there mix (CHC, bark, or sphagnum) has a big effect on pH at the roots.
 

NYEric

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OK! I have kept out of this for long enough. I became a strong believer in CHC when I found one of my creeping houseplants had snuck a root into a small pot of it. The roots were so thick that I had a difficult time pulling them out of the pot. I use a mix w/ CHC and other media depanding on how much moisture I want to maintain. I have previously noted to Mr. Mahon that " Information is a powerfull thing, but a little information is a dangerous thing" He chooses to ignore this. I think that the obvious grasping at unsubstantiated work is the sign of a precocious [sic?] youth attempting to justify his position in an adult world. Possibly Mr. Mahon will be proven correct. Hopefully he will not. We can only slap our foreheads in incredualty at the remarks posted and go on with life. After all most people are sheep; I find that those who attempt the preservation and cultivation of orchids to be generally of a higher intellectual capacity. [Generally]
 

kentuckiense

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Ok guys. Let's try to keep the snide quips directed at Mahon to a minimum. No, I'm not just talking about you Eric, I'm just saying it in general. Let's objectively argue point to point and keep references to age or whatnot out of it. I'm not much older than him and I've never been insulted because of my age.

Anyway, I grow quite a few Parvis and a sanderianum and a roth hybrid in a CHC/charcoal/diatomite/spongeroc mixture. I love the darn stuff. I really like the even moisture retention combined with ample air space. I have nothing but good things to say about the stuff. However, I've only been growing for about six months, so I suppose time will tell.
 
M

Mahon

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NYEric said:
OK! I have kept out of this for long enough. I became a strong believer in CHC when I found one of my creeping houseplants had snuck a root into a small pot of it. The roots were so thick that I had a difficult time pulling them out of the pot. I use a mix w/ CHC and other media depanding on how much moisture I want to maintain. I have previously noted to Mr. Mahon that " Information is a powerfull thing, but a little information is a dangerous thing" He chooses to ignore this. I think that the obvious grasping at unsubstantiated work is the sign of a precocious [sic?] youth attempting to justify his position in an adult world. Possibly Mr. Mahon will be proven correct. Hopefully he will not. We can only slap our foreheads in incredualty at the remarks posted and go on with life. After all most people are sheep; I find that those who attempt the preservation and cultivation of orchids to be generally of a higher intellectual capacity. [Generally]

I find that your post is not only incredibly irrelevant, but it is primitive. You are bothering me. Instead of criticizing me, go out and contribute to orchids.

Zach, thanks for the suggestion. I think we should try to stick to the topic instead of taking out hatred on one another. :)

-Pat
 

NYEric

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Mr. Mahon, at the time you receive a degree or any kind of accreditation in psychology [which I have] your opinion of the relevance of my post might be considered. If you believe my post is criticizing you, as oposed to the belief I am entitled to, so be it. However I think that many others reading this post might agree with the observation. Now I dont say you should behave according to what the masses tell you, but maybe you should consider and take to heart what people are saying and think how that will affect their response behaviours. And Mr. kentuckiense, I'm not saying anything about age, just about behaviour. Many older people are harder to get along with, and even harder to ignore, than Mr. Mahon.
 
M

Mahon

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Eric,

I am not interested in obtaining a degree in psychology, nor interested in that "science"... I am interested in orchid research and propagation, and taxonomy. I do not understand why I am trying to be ignored, and I don't care. Those ignorant enough may easily block me. I contribute information here, I am not here to get recognition. There are many that disagree with me, which is perfectly fine. Most of the time, it is productive, yet people, such as yourself, have taken it the wrong way. If anyone has a problem with my posts on CHC should post a complaint, and should also contact the expert in whom I quote.

This thread is upon mixes, why don't we stick to it? Hopefully Xavier will post here about CHC and his research.

-PM
 
C

Cannonball

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I am glad those of us who are "ignorant" get to bask in your knowledge Patrick. :rolleyes:

Just remember that you are a teenager. You are not a taxonomist. You are not a research scientist. And you are not contributing to the study of orchids. This is all a delusion.
 

gonewild

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Rick said:
I did find a somewhat unrelated tidbit on Fusarium wilt which tied its control to soil pH (keep between 6 and 7), and using nitrate based fertilizers rather than ammonia based fertilizers.

I also found some product trial comparisons for control of various wilts and rots. The research found "positive effects" by a couple of products, but none of the results were statistically significant from doing nothing or treating with water.:rollhappy: :rollhappy:

This info is tangentially related to the CHC issue since the type and age of the base organic media a person uses in there mix (CHC, bark, or sphagnum) has a big effect on pH at the roots.
i

I've looked as well and can't find any data that suggests CHC would carry or cause Fusarium Wilt. There was one study that indicated Coir provides a positive environment for Fusarium, but that should not be construed as meaning coir causes Fusarium.

Most of the data in the reports actually show that mixes containing Coir produced better growth than other mix combinations. However the research available is for plants other than orchids, but those plants are possibly much more sensitive to Fusarium than are orchids.
 
M

Mahon

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Cannonball said:
I am glad those of us who are "ignorant" get to bask in your knowledge Patrick. :rolleyes:

Yes, but of course

Cannonball said:
Just remember that you are a teenager. You are not a taxonomist. You are not a research scientist. And you are not contributing to the study of orchids. This is all a delusion.

I have absolutely no idea who you are, but you should probably make sure that you are correct. I am a teenager, and I have a feeling that is why you are trying to bug me. For your info, my taxonomical work is upon Zygopetalinae. My studies upon orchids is still developing, and I have succesfully propagated more Florida native orchids than anyone I know. Perhaps you are the delusion, and this is off topic.

-P.A. Mahon
 

Rick

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gonewild said:
i

I've looked as well and can't find any data that suggests CHC would carry or cause Fusarium Wilt. There was one study that indicated Coir provides a positive environment for Fusarium, but that should not be construed as meaning coir causes Fusarium.

Most of the data in the reports actually show that mixes containing Coir produced better growth than other mix combinations. However the research available is for plants other than orchids, but those plants are possibly much more sensitive to Fusarium than are orchids.

You are right Lance, but I think the reason is more $ related than an actuall susceptability to disease. Bottom line is that good research with controls and a statistically sound data base requires lots of resources (time, space, and energy). At least with food crops there is more financial insentive to find cost effective treatments that really work, and space/material/energy concerns are cheap compared to orchids. Orchid culture research in comparison is based far more on anecdotal acounts than statistical significance. Only a few major growers have enough plants to meet true sample size requirements in a well controled environment, but I doubt that many want to expose a couple hundered of their plants to fusarium spores to see what treatment works best.

Threads like this one are a real rough way to meet sample size, by adding up all the annecdotes, and wading though all the variables until you can make an educated guess about what works or not. But so far its the best way to develop an orchid culture data base that I've come up with.
 

Tony

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Tony said:
I use a bark/perlite/charcoal/diatomite mix with a touch of sphagnum. Results have been good so far, but I've only had them for two months at the most. I know Stephen (silence882) uses a CHC mix, and all the plants he has sent me have incredibe roots.


I just finished repotting all my plants into LECA, as the bark has turned to mush already. I'm glad I use clear pots, or I wouldn't have known until it was too late. I caught a few in the early stages of root rot, but they also had new roots growing, so all should be well.
 
E

Eric Muehlbauer

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Well, since this thread has been revived (can't believe I missed it in the first place), I thought I'd add to it. For starters, I am a big advocate of CHC. That said, it is not always the perfect medium. Medium grade is perfect for Catt's, vandaceous, oncidium...straight, no chaser....they thrive for years, only need repotting when overgrown. Paphs love it (except delanatii), but it MUST be mixed with LOTS of aerating material- spongerock, lava rock, prime agra...diatomite? anything very coarse, and lots of it. And while epiphytic orchids can live in CHC forever, I find that paphs should be repotted within 2 years. Oh...and even when it says "pre-washed", I still soak CHC (1 gal or less CHC to 5 gal water) at least 3 times, using CaNO3 and MgSO4 in the 2nd soak. What doesn't like CHC? Phrags...they will do OK in it, but don't thrive....they definitely prefer bark based mixes. Phals....same deal...will live in it but not thrive (of course, Andy Easton ripped into me on the OD list for saying that phals hate it, but being insulted by Andy is a rite of passage for orchid posters...). As for rock wool, the stuff is disgusting....gets thoroughly slimy with blue green algae, and turns your pot into a fungus gnat breeding factory....Keep in mind, this is for my culture only...indoors, no greenhouse, high quality tap water, MSU fertilizer (with Pro-Tekt added for paphs...prevents pH from getting too acidic...)Take care, Eric
 

NYEric

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CHC mix

Hi Eric thanx for the plants. I finally finished cleaning, cutting and repotting them. Some had issues w/ scale but I think I got most of them. I think my Phrags like a mix w/ CHC [+ PrimeAgra, horticultural charcoal, and very little bark]. I dont like bark because it breaks down so quickly. Growing Phrags in trays w/ circulating R.O. water.
 

Brabantia

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One year later, is it news about this subject? It is very interesting because we have a similar discution on a french forum. Is it new opinions on the use of CHC for paphs? Can we use CHC for Paph rothschildianum and sanderianum? Can CHC induce deprives in iron? Many thanks in advance for your news comments on this extreme subject.
 

Marco

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Hi brabantia. Welcome to the forum. Sorry but I cant be much of any help but I'm sure some other folks here will chime in.
 

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