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Letter from Chuck Acker

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suss16

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Did anyone else receive his letter? His kovachii flask/compots are not true kovachii. Included is a letter of apology from Manolo Arias.
 
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gore42

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I didn't receive the letter from him, but I wondered whether that might be the case, considering how fast they were growing and the sudden disappearance of them on his website. That's too bad... I hope he didn't get screwed financially.

- Matt
 

Heather

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Well, I think several of us expected this might be the case.
What did they end up being?

Was Orchids Ltd. affected as well? I thought all those flasks came back at on the same trip.
 
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BotanicaLtd

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Is that where Glen Decker/Piping Rocks are from as well? We decided not to be on the "bleeding edge" with kovachii...and I've not followed along with all the news, but weren't all the "legal" plants supposed to be from five original parent plants? Please set me straight if I'm wrong.

Regarding Chuck Acker---he's one of the most honest and trustworthy orchid people we've ever dealt with. I agree with Matt---I hope he didn't lose out financially!
 
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gore42

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Chuck Acker and Jerry Fischer traveled together to South America to pick up their kovachii flasks; they are from the same source. I can only speculate what this means about Orchids Ltds seedlings, but I'm sure that Jason or someone else from the organization can fill us in.

Glen Decker, however, got his from a separate source, so this doesn't call his into question. I got some from Glen Decker... I think I'll go check on them :)

BTW, I can't agree more about Chuck Acker's honesty and integrity. He is the best Phrag person to deal with in the business, in my experience.

As Ever,
Matthew Gore
 

Heather

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Yeah - as I understand it the two groups were :

Manuel Arias (Legal Peruvian grower) - Acker and Fischer

Alfredo Manrique (Legal Peruvian grower) - Partners: Glen Decker, Peter Croezen (Canada), Fritz Schomburg
 

suss16

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Sorry I did not provide this earlier. Included with the letters was a check for the deposit. And yes, Chuck's integrity is beyond reproach. He handled a very difficult situation with class and honesty. I will always go to him for flasks.
 

Ron-NY

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suss16 said:
Did anyone else receive his letter? His kovachii flask/compots are not true kovachii. Included is a letter of apology from Manolo Arias.
I wonder what happened:confused: I know when I saw the seedlings they didn't look like kovachii but more like boisserianum.

He must have been hurt financially, He had to return all those deposits. Is there hybrids effected as well?
 

Jason Fischer

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kovachii problems

I went down to Peru with Chuck but I purchased several different kovachii sibs and hybrids. One particular kovachii sib cross appears to be different in leaf habit so Chuck and I are now doing DNA sequencing on the one in question plus some other kovachii sibs as well. This testing is being done by 2 different labs. The tests have not been completed yet and the interpretation of them should reveal the true identity. I must say though that the sequencing results are not always 100 percent correct and I will explain this later in an upcoming post. We are confident that the tests will help us understand what this particular cross is or is not.

Fortunately I have enough of some of the other sib crosses that I know to be true so substitutions can be made if indeed there is a problem. Chuck did not want to wait for the results as he is heading out of the country on vacation about the time he was to release the first plants. Chuck really only had the one sib cross that did well for him so he does not have the option of replacing them with another sib cross, at least not at this time. If there were mistakes Manolo has said to us that he will stand behind his sale and get us true kovachii replacement plants for those we received which may be wrong.. Unfortunately it will may be spring before Chuck and I will have the replacement plants.

This is most frustrating for Chuck and I but especially for Chuck. He was so excited to go down with me to get these flasks. I have known Chuck for a long time. It ws his father Walter who was really there for me in the beginning of my Orchid Business in the late 1970's. He supplied me with beautiful Cattleyas and other plants. I used to visit their nursery 10 to 15 times per year in those days a trip of 450 plus miles from my place.

I will certainly post when we find out what the results of these tests really are.

Jerry Lee Fischer, Orchids Limited
 
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Mark

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This really is something. I wonder how it happened. Knowing Chuck as I do I'm not surprised he's making good on people's deposits. He's truly a decent guy and I feel for him that all the time, money and work he's put into those seedlings may have been wasted. Such a shame.:(
 
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Greenthings

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It was I who in 2005 warned people on slipper orchid forums that a reliable Lima source told me that Peruflora could not possibly propagate the number of Pk flasks they sold from five legal Pk plants. The suggestion was made that therefore Peruflora would have to have purchased Pk seeds from illegal plants outside their nursery.

I received a lot of flack over this and was told that I did not know what I was talking about.

Soon after, I received another message from Lima telling me that an enemy of the Arias family had managed to have someone sell Manolo Pk seeds which were in fact seeds of another Phragmipedium species.

Knowing my sources to be very reliable, I publicly announced that the Peruflora 's Pk species labels are unreliable, if seeds were purchased, and if indeed it was true that non-Pk seeds were sold to them, the seedlings in their flasks may not at all be Pk.

Again I was blasted for this by many, publicly and privately.

Last May while at the Redland International Orchid Festival, a very angry Manolo Arias stormed into the sales booth (tent) I was in, directed there by one of his friends who talked to me in the line up for the festival BBQ for vendors.

Manolo told me that I was spreading false rumours about Peruflora when I stated on orchid forums, which he monitors, that their Pk flasks may not contain Pk seedlings but other species.

Well, we now know that my friends and I did not lie but told the truth and that all who contradicted me on the forums truly did not know what they were talking about.

Believe me I take no pleasure in this. I feel terribly sorry for all who got stung by this.

Chuck Acker did the honourable thing and I expected no less from him.
His business will not suffer, quite the opposite will result.
 
G

Greenthings

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I note that Jerry Fischer on another forum claims that Manolo Arias did not
purchase Pk seeds.

If Manolo told people that he did, Peruflora would very quicly lose their Pk license, as well as the five legal Pk plants. Not that it will make a difference now after what happened to Chuck Acker, probably to you, and many more
in the world

Jerry, I predicted in 2005 that some Peruflora flasks would have non Pk seedings in them and I based it on very reliable information. It has just happened. How often do you need to be told the truth?
 
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isaias m rolando

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True Pk At Cjm Orchids In Peru

suss16 said:
Did anyone else receive his letter? His kovachii flask/compots are not true kovachii. Included is a letter of apology from Manolo Arias.
As a peruvian orchid fan my shame on some comercial growers and my best apologies in the side on CITES-INRENA people. It has been dificult for them, not having an specialist to issue CITES papers on PK flasks.
I had the same reports by personal comunication of some farmers in PK habitat about "selling PK seeds" to a comercial grower. But they also informed that some of these said PK seeds were boisserianum seed pots and wallisi seed pods, also comon in the neighboring habitat for PK. INRENA can not prove these are ilegal flasks...
Fortunately there is a better source for true PK flasks and hybrids, from CJM orchids. I have witness myself all the process of legal collecting, growing, obtaining the true seeds of the best clones of true kovachiis and hybrids already in the market. CJM Orchids has the best high tech and formulas to grow, hybridize, germinate, grow in flask, deflask and growing seedlings in their facilities. CITES-INRENA people can testify that CJM is the only legal grower of PK that is certified by them for the entire process of growing, obtaining seed pods and lab germination and growing seedlings in and out of flasks. You can request this information to INRENA anytime.
The third legal collector is Mr Lee Moore. They obtained their permision recently last year. I have seen their seed pods too. If Mr Moore authorizes me I can show images of his plants containing seed pods from last November.
As you all know it takes time to obtaine legal seed pods.
It is not good for any bussines to have these "mistakes" on every one side. Mr Acker and Mr Fisher are doing to right thing. Appologies are not enough for the hundreds of hobbiests worldwide that would like to flower true PK in the future.
If I can be of any help for anybody acting legally, it will be my pleisure to answer all your questions.
 

SlipperFan

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I think you are new here, Isaias. Welcome to the forum. I think you will be having a lot to contribute. Thanks for posting.

Can you tell us a little more about yourself?
 
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isaias m rolando

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I am THE WELL-KNOWN ORCHID ENTHUSIAST FROM PERU

Dear Slipper Fan

All I can say is that you may put my name isaias rolando into Googles and you will find there some of my publications and my conection to some scientific institutions.

If you look and the O. Digest Vol 67 (4), 2003, you will see that H. Koopowitz points out (sic): "...Our fearless leader, always full of optimism, was Dr Isaias Rolando, the well-known orchid enthusiast from Peru..." (pag 248).

I am an academic at my university, as an ophthalmologist, as a researcher and always pushing my university to research in peruvian orchids. We have DNA sequence machines. We will present our results very soon.

Any personal comunication you may address to my e-mail: orchid@upch.edu.pe

Have a good sunday
 
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isaias m rolando

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PROPOSAL

Lets do something positive
I strongly recomend to look to the future. DNA sequence as fingerprints will help all of us to identify whatever can be a "mistake" by some lab. There is enough scientific evidence to be sure what species is involve in each issue, said comercial trade or just for hobbiest assurance that they are paying for what they want. Is not a kovachii issue anymore, is about forensics in international trade.
I have a question to Mr J. Fisher. We know he did DNA counting for PK. Our problem is that his numbers are diferent to what Miluska Damian (see ORCHIDS, Feb 2005, pag 132) found here in her studies. What plant material did you use Mr Fisher? The ones from Peruflora? This is very important to stablish the scientific reality.
Have a good sunday
 

Rob Zuiderwijk

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To come back to the original subject. In my personal communications with Mr. Chuck Acker on this subject, one thing he said was:

"I truly believe that I am not the only person who has these mislabeled plants as these are from the very earliest flasks of one particular cross which was also sold in mass at the WOC in Dijon."

I know from other communications I had with, among others, European nursery owners, that quite a number of these flasks that where sold at the WOC in Dijon have found their way to various nurseries. So I think a lot of people will be very disappointed or maybe angree, when their precious, high priced, "kovachii"-plant(s) start to flower.

I guess only time will tell what kind of kovachii-plants are already out their at the moment.


RZu.
 

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