I assume the plants are using up the small amount of N that is applied while not using the K. The K then accumulating in the media.
K-Lite experts, please help
- Thread starter Trithor
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I assume the plants are using up the small amount of N that is applied while not using the K. The K then accumulating in the media.
Only a guess based on the high K level, but probably most of the N comes from Potassium Nitrate in this fertilizer mix.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
I doubt that ethylene is a cause of my problem. There is no source of ethylene present or near the greenhouse at all.
I think the target market for the fertilizer are the tomatoe growers. When I purchased the fertilizer I never realy considered the composition to be a problem, it was labeled as 'fertigation fertilizer for flower and fruit'. I bought 50 kg of the stuff!
The reason why I originally thought that the flower deformities was due to auxin/cytokinins is because I experienced something similar many years ago. As a med student I used to grow a very varied collection of ferns. I used to use a brand of contraceptive pill on the ferns (used to get them from the family planning clinic at the hospital which I worked at, plenty of expired pills were always available). I can only assume that a component of the pill was converted into an active growth hormone by the potting mix or fern itself, because the plants receiving the pill grew much faster than those not. After I started growing orchids I tried the same on them, but did not see any change in growth rate, but the flowers were nearly all deformed.
I think the target market for the fertilizer are the tomatoe growers. When I purchased the fertilizer I never realy considered the composition to be a problem, it was labeled as 'fertigation fertilizer for flower and fruit'. I bought 50 kg of the stuff!
The reason why I originally thought that the flower deformities was due to auxin/cytokinins is because I experienced something similar many years ago. As a med student I used to grow a very varied collection of ferns. I used to use a brand of contraceptive pill on the ferns (used to get them from the family planning clinic at the hospital which I worked at, plenty of expired pills were always available). I can only assume that a component of the pill was converted into an active growth hormone by the potting mix or fern itself, because the plants receiving the pill grew much faster than those not. After I started growing orchids I tried the same on them, but did not see any change in growth rate, but the flowers were nearly all deformed.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
At long last, ...... I have my new fertilizer. As advised I got extra calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate. I arrived home to find the following on my doorstep;
25kg magnesium nitrate
25kg calcium nitrate
25kg magnesium sulphate
50 kg special mix as follows
198g/kg n( as 118g ammonium and 81g nitrates)
130g/kg P
65g/kg K
176mg/kg Fe
42mg/kg Mn
21mg/kg Zn
3mg/kg Cu
53mg B
5mg Mo
Now how much Mag nitrate should I mix in (or mag sulph if we don't want to increase the nitrate portion too much?) I have been advised to apply the calcium component separately to avoid precipitation of the calcium.
25kg magnesium nitrate
25kg calcium nitrate
25kg magnesium sulphate
50 kg special mix as follows
198g/kg n( as 118g ammonium and 81g nitrates)
130g/kg P
65g/kg K
176mg/kg Fe
42mg/kg Mn
21mg/kg Zn
3mg/kg Cu
53mg B
5mg Mo
Now how much Mag nitrate should I mix in (or mag sulph if we don't want to increase the nitrate portion too much?) I have been advised to apply the calcium component separately to avoid precipitation of the calcium.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
I forgot to mention that the fertilizer is finely ground up and very well homogenized. The included slip claims that a sample as small as 5mg will test 95% representative of the whole.
D
DavidCampen
Guest
Now how much Mag nitrate should I mix in (or mag sulph if we don't want to increase the nitrate portion too much?) I have been advised to apply the calcium component separately to avoid precipitation of the calcium.
It is sulfate that causes calcium to precipitate. With my formulations, at about pH 5.5, I find that the concentrate solution that I make to use at 1:100 dilution will take sulfate up the equivalent of 1 gram of calcium sulfate per liter without forming a precipitate. If I increase the sulfate up to the equivalent of 1.5 grams calcium sulfate per liter I will get a precipitate; it is interesting to watch, it can take several hours to overnight for the precipitate to form.
So how much magnesium sulfate you can add depends on if there is any sulfate in the ready made formulation. I like to add sulfate up to the solubility limit because I feel that sulfur is an important nutrient.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
David, then should I not keep the calcium and magnesium components separate and apply them a few days later? Ie apply the new fertilizer on day 1, a calmag mix on day 4, a water flush on day 7 and so on?
I think that if you mix them in the about-to-be-applied dilution, and use the stuff right away, precipitation will not be an issues.
As David alluded-to, the ions have to travel to each other in order to combine into particles large enough to drop out of solution, so in a dilute solution, that is slower and less likely.
As David alluded-to, the ions have to travel to each other in order to combine into particles large enough to drop out of solution, so in a dilute solution, that is slower and less likely.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
Thanks for all the assistance.
Rick
Well-Known Member
The Greencare Klite has calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate dry in the same mix (no mag sulfate). We haven't been getting calcium precipitation in concentrated solutions, but the amount of sulfate is not high enough to get gypsum formation (as mentioned previously).
If you are making up your fert solution in a well water or relatively hard surface/tap water, you shouldn't need to add any calcium or magnesium salts (already in the makeup water). If you are using RO or rain water then calcium/magnesium is added to achieve hardness of ~20-30 ppm (as CaCO3) if your total nitrogen application rate is also low and go up proportionally for higher rates of N application.
Keep Ca > Mg.
If you are using rain/RO water, then you will be using mostly the calcium nitrate and magsulfate with a dash of the mix. If you are using well water, then the mix will get primary use with maybe a dash of mag sulfate/mag nitrate.
If you are making up your fert solution in a well water or relatively hard surface/tap water, you shouldn't need to add any calcium or magnesium salts (already in the makeup water). If you are using RO or rain water then calcium/magnesium is added to achieve hardness of ~20-30 ppm (as CaCO3) if your total nitrogen application rate is also low and go up proportionally for higher rates of N application.
Keep Ca > Mg.
If you are using rain/RO water, then you will be using mostly the calcium nitrate and magsulfate with a dash of the mix. If you are using well water, then the mix will get primary use with maybe a dash of mag sulfate/mag nitrate.
How big is a dash? Can you express that in an approximate percentage or some volume comparison?
Are you wanting a dilution for direct application or a concentrate to use with an injector?
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
For use in the injector. It is currently set for 1 in 50 parts, so a mix for that would be great. Despite all the help, I am getting more confused with each passing day!
OK lets figure out how much fertilizer to mix to make your stock solution without worrying whether or not you should use it.....
How strong do you want the N to be in PPM?
And how many ppm of K do you want?
You need to decide the ratio between Nitrogen and Potassium you want.
Do you want to try to come close to K-lite ratios?
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
Lance, thank you for getting so involved. I stopped using my previous fertilizer because i was concerned. After reading the posts on k-lite i decided that i needed to change. So yes I think I would like to approximate K-lite. I have currently applied 200mg of the premix in 10litre water applied through the injector as a 1 in 50. I figured that would be a fair starting point. I did not mix in any cal nitrate or mag nitrate, as I figured I needed to start somewhere. I have not been feeding for the last two weeks while I tried to figure out what to do.
I have read all the info on your site, trying to get a grip on the situation, and realise I need to get a water test before I realy know where I stand.
thanks, Gary.
I have read all the info on your site, trying to get a grip on the situation, and realise I need to get a water test before I realy know where I stand.
thanks, Gary.
A
ALToronto
Guest
200 mg of premix? That's very little. Do you mean 200 ml or maybe 200 g?
Rick
Well-Known Member
I need to get a water test before I realy know where I stand.
thanks, Gary.
Yes I'm also confused without knowing what the water chemistry is of your irrigation water.
sorry for the additional confusion.
Lets work through this and check all our math. i reserve the right to make mistakes until we are done!
You have 4 different dry ingredients to work with.
Your only source of potassium is from the stock mix at 65g/kg K
You only source for Phosphorous is the stock mix at 130g/kg P
The stock mix contains all the micros so we have to use it and accept what ever ratios and amounts of micros we end up with.
We won't be concerned with the ratio of Phosphorous for the same reason and we don't really know how much P to use with the low potassium anyway.
K-lite has about 10 times more N than K.
So we start with one approach.
1 kg of stock mix + 3 kg of Calcium Nitrate
This mix will give you 4kg containing:
198g N from the stock mix + 465g N from the Calcium Nitrate = 663g of N
+
65g of K from the stock mix
Divide that by 4 and you get 165g of N and 16g of K per Kg.
That is about a 10:1 N/K ratio similar to K-lite ratio between the two elements.
Does this make sense so far?
Gotta take a walk on the beach, I'll be back later.
You have 4 different dry ingredients to work with.
Your only source of potassium is from the stock mix at 65g/kg K
You only source for Phosphorous is the stock mix at 130g/kg P
The stock mix contains all the micros so we have to use it and accept what ever ratios and amounts of micros we end up with.
We won't be concerned with the ratio of Phosphorous for the same reason and we don't really know how much P to use with the low potassium anyway.
K-lite has about 10 times more N than K.
So we start with one approach.
1 kg of stock mix + 3 kg of Calcium Nitrate
This mix will give you 4kg containing:
198g N from the stock mix + 465g N from the Calcium Nitrate = 663g of N
+
65g of K from the stock mix
Divide that by 4 and you get 165g of N and 16g of K per Kg.
That is about a 10:1 N/K ratio similar to K-lite ratio between the two elements.
Does this make sense so far?
Gotta take a walk on the beach, I'll be back later.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
Sorry yes, it was 200g not mg
