Yes, you are right! That is why it is my signature since last week!
Je suis Charlie!
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Yes, you are right! That is why it is my signature since last week!
The Mutant
Well-Known Member
Ugh, too bothersome. I think I would skip taking other people with me and only bring the orchids and the cats.
But I'll stop derailing this thread now, because it feels it's too serious a subject for this type of posts.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I was just playing the Devil's advocate. The frailties of human desire are our biggest fault. if we could be raised to think of everyone as equal, w/ equal potential, our societies could be perfect.
Justin
Well-Known Member
Je suis Charlie!
The Mutant
Well-Known Member
Aha, it was lost on me and yes, that sounds like a utopia in many ways, except that I would like to add that not everyone has equal potential, some of us are limited in some ways. A respect/acceptance for/of differences would be a nice thing to have in a utopian society, though.
I've read a bit more about the attack and various thoughts from journalists and columnists and it seems many of them share my feelings and fears of what this will lead to; polarization, suspicion, fear, insecurity, hate, racism, social rejection...
Hate breeds hate and violence breeds violence... it's a vicious circle that's difficult to break.
This is why I try to avoid the real world; it's so darned depressing.
L
lepetitmartien
Guest
[Censored], they killed Cabu, Wolinski, Charb and Tignouss, and other innocents.
FYI, the Canard Enchaîné (the chained duck), oldest satyric newspaper in France is under threat since Thursday and protected accordingly (threat to 'kill them with axes'). The cover of the Canard tomorrow is all for Cabu, who was collaborating with the newspaper for more than 30 years.
Charlie as you must know will be out tomorrow in 16 languages, and kickin', even if it's been hard for the survivors to get to work with the right tone. But if you've seen the cover which is disclosed since Monday, Mohammad is back with another cartoon from Luz, injured in the attack. I know it's censored like the charlie covers in the US, see for it in France,
I have not walked on Sunday.
As the head of the march was trusted by governments heads not there for human rights or freedom of expression, as half of them are threatening free speech, human or judicial rights, bloggers, journalists, whistleblowers etc. including ours. Plus the VIPs and politics handling the banners were most of them objects to caricatures by Charlie for a good reason. The only "charlie spirit" there has been the pigeon that did his little thing on our president while he met the survivors of Charlie.
Now all the normal people marching were GREAT. It gave some spring spirit to France to change from the attacks and the [censored] who are committing actions against mosque or synagogues since. Not a lot of actions but one is one too many.
People remembered too that atheists are to be respected too, Charlie is an atheist newspaper (in fact they fight everything).
I just hope as everyone here that it's over, as we have already a long history of terrorism, long before 9/11. I could have been very near a bombing in 86 (missed by a couple of hours), I've been lucky, like all my family in other occasions. So…
Now, the worse is that the attacks are used as an alibi here to add more freedom restricting laws on top of the ones we have already, like the LPMT last year, that allows security services to monitor all electronic communication (ie everything save snail mail) on anyone without a judicial monitoring. Some ask for a french "Patriot Act" as if it was an example for democracies and human rights. We'll see how it'll fare but I'm not optimistic. At least, a blasphemy law is not on the agenda (and cannot be due to our secularism principles, blasphemy died in France in 1789, but who knows…)
'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' B. Franklin
I won't enter into the thread more, I'm just sharing some input you may not have far from France. It's still difficult for me as it makes some things come back, and we all 'knew' them, the big names here, so… :'(
(no hugs, buy Charlie if you can or your local satyric newspaper.)
FYI, the Canard Enchaîné (the chained duck), oldest satyric newspaper in France is under threat since Thursday and protected accordingly (threat to 'kill them with axes'). The cover of the Canard tomorrow is all for Cabu, who was collaborating with the newspaper for more than 30 years.
Charlie as you must know will be out tomorrow in 16 languages, and kickin', even if it's been hard for the survivors to get to work with the right tone. But if you've seen the cover which is disclosed since Monday, Mohammad is back with another cartoon from Luz, injured in the attack. I know it's censored like the charlie covers in the US, see for it in France,
I have not walked on Sunday.
As the head of the march was trusted by governments heads not there for human rights or freedom of expression, as half of them are threatening free speech, human or judicial rights, bloggers, journalists, whistleblowers etc. including ours. Plus the VIPs and politics handling the banners were most of them objects to caricatures by Charlie for a good reason. The only "charlie spirit" there has been the pigeon that did his little thing on our president while he met the survivors of Charlie.
Now all the normal people marching were GREAT. It gave some spring spirit to France to change from the attacks and the [censored] who are committing actions against mosque or synagogues since. Not a lot of actions but one is one too many.
People remembered too that atheists are to be respected too, Charlie is an atheist newspaper (in fact they fight everything).
I just hope as everyone here that it's over, as we have already a long history of terrorism, long before 9/11. I could have been very near a bombing in 86 (missed by a couple of hours), I've been lucky, like all my family in other occasions. So…
Now, the worse is that the attacks are used as an alibi here to add more freedom restricting laws on top of the ones we have already, like the LPMT last year, that allows security services to monitor all electronic communication (ie everything save snail mail) on anyone without a judicial monitoring. Some ask for a french "Patriot Act" as if it was an example for democracies and human rights. We'll see how it'll fare but I'm not optimistic. At least, a blasphemy law is not on the agenda (and cannot be due to our secularism principles, blasphemy died in France in 1789, but who knows…)
'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' B. Franklin
I won't enter into the thread more, I'm just sharing some input you may not have far from France. It's still difficult for me as it makes some things come back, and we all 'knew' them, the big names here, so… :'(
(no hugs, buy Charlie if you can or your local satyric newspaper.)
LPM, I've heard that the next issue of Charlie will have many English language printings. Surely, some will make
it here even if it's hand-to-hand. I hope so. Please keep
us informed about what's happening in France.
it here even if it's hand-to-hand. I hope so. Please keep
us informed about what's happening in France.
Thank you so much Lepetitmartien for putting the things right; obviously we share the idea that the massacres have already been used as excuse to restrict civil rights.
I tried to post the cover Charlie did after the first attempt to silence them ' l'amour plus forte...' but it was banned immediately. The right to carry weapons and the right to write are different things. Not in democracy, though. And as Mutant already wrote, religions and tolerance don't match very good...
The new Charlie is already sold out; and I fear I won't be able to get one here where I live. Not Charlie, but le canard and other satiric magazines are part of my youth.
Hoping for some change in 2015
I tried to post the cover Charlie did after the first attempt to silence them ' l'amour plus forte...' but it was banned immediately. The right to carry weapons and the right to write are different things. Not in democracy, though. And as Mutant already wrote, religions and tolerance don't match very good...
The new Charlie is already sold out; and I fear I won't be able to get one here where I live. Not Charlie, but le canard and other satiric magazines are part of my youth.
Hoping for some change in 2015
The Mutant
Well-Known Member
Thank you for your post, LPM. I can't even imagine what you're going through right now. It worries me to see that some of the things I feared might happen are already in fact happening. I hate to be right about such things.[Censored], they killed Cabu, Wolinski, Charb and Tignouss, and other innocents.
FYI, the Canard Enchaîné (the chained duck), oldest satyric newspaper in France is under threat since Thursday and protected accordingly (threat to 'kill them with axes'). The cover of the Canard tomorrow is all for Cabu, who was collaborating with the newspaper for more than 30 years.
Charlie as you must know will be out tomorrow in 16 languages, and kickin', even if it's been hard for the survivors to get to work with the right tone. But if you've seen the cover which is disclosed since Monday, Mohammad is back with another cartoon from Luz, injured in the attack. I know it's censored like the charlie covers in the US, see for it in France,
I have not walked on Sunday.
As the head of the march was trusted by governments heads not there for human rights or freedom of expression, as half of them are threatening free speech, human or judicial rights, bloggers, journalists, whistleblowers etc. including ours. Plus the VIPs and politics handling the banners were most of them objects to caricatures by Charlie for a good reason. The only "charlie spirit" there has been the pigeon that did his little thing on our president while he met the survivors of Charlie.
Now all the normal people marching were GREAT. It gave some spring spirit to France to change from the attacks and the [censored] who are committing actions against mosque or synagogues since. Not a lot of actions but one is one too many.
People remembered too that atheists are to be respected too, Charlie is an atheist newspaper (in fact they fight everything).
I just hope as everyone here that it's over, as we have already a long history of terrorism, long before 9/11. I could have been very near a bombing in 86 (missed by a couple of hours), I've been lucky, like all my family in other occasions. So…
Now, the worse is that the attacks are used as an alibi here to add more freedom restricting laws on top of the ones we have already, like the LPMT last year, that allows security services to monitor all electronic communication (ie everything save snail mail) on anyone without a judicial monitoring. Some ask for a french "Patriot Act" as if it was an example for democracies and human rights. We'll see how it'll fare but I'm not optimistic. At least, a blasphemy law is not on the agenda (and cannot be due to our secularism principles, blasphemy died in France in 1789, but who knows…)
'Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.' B. Franklin
I won't enter into the thread more, I'm just sharing some input you may not have far from France. It's still difficult for me as it makes some things come back, and we all 'knew' them, the big names here, so… :'(
(no hugs, buy Charlie if you can or your local satyric newspaper.)
The horrors that happened in France are being used by various groups, political and otherwise, to further their agenda. It's disgusting to see.
I can't get a hold of a physical copy of the paper, but I will get a digital one tomorrow.
Unfortunately, that's the impression I've gotten of most religious people but it's not true in most cases, or at least I hope it's not.
It's a prejudice I have that I have to work with. I just felt I needed to clarify myself so as not to come across as a complete hypocrite.
I don't want anybody to judge me before I open my mouth, so I shouldn't judge them either.
C
Clark
Guest
God Bless the victims.
I am actually surprised it doesn't happen in the US on a regular basis.
I am actually surprised it doesn't happen in the US on a regular basis.
Oh, it does happen. Gay people e.g. - as I am one - can tell the story. All 'in the name of god'. Religion has many 'targets'... just one example. Not all killings make their way into TV-News.
Btw, 'god bless the victims' would be the kind of humor Charlie Hebdo used in drawings for atheist deads...
And yes, it seems nearly impossible to get hold of one copy. In a way, that is good news. 5 million! Imagine!
Btw, 'god bless the victims' would be the kind of humor Charlie Hebdo used in drawings for atheist deads...
And yes, it seems nearly impossible to get hold of one copy. In a way, that is good news. 5 million! Imagine!
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I am not a religious person, at least not an organized religion. However, I would fight to the death to defend the right of all/others to practice what they believe in here.
The Mutant
Well-Known Member
I know and that's one of the biggest issue I have with religion, or rather some of their practitioners, in general. I just realized I shouldn't assume everybody was like that however, that's what I meant.
I agree.
C
Clark
Guest
Lately my heroes have been the staff at the NYDailyNews. They have been bashing and thrashing the New York Police Dept. on a daily basis.
As wrong as folks feel the Dept. has been recently, we still need the police.
I would find it unbelievable, when Paris buries their dead, there is no religion involved.
I gave god the pink slip thirty years ago, btw.
As wrong as folks feel the Dept. has been recently, we still need the police.
I would find it unbelievable, when Paris buries their dead, there is no religion involved.
I gave god the pink slip thirty years ago, btw.
Secundino, the gay community here in the states is making
some headway against prejudice and legal status as married couples, but it's been a very long, very tragic fight through hatred (religion) and misunderstanding (AIDS). A totally unnecessary unwillingness to let human
beings just be human beings...all of us the same regardless of sexual orientation ( which is none of anyone else's business anyway!).
some headway against prejudice and legal status as married couples, but it's been a very long, very tragic fight through hatred (religion) and misunderstanding (AIDS). A totally unnecessary unwillingness to let human
beings just be human beings...all of us the same regardless of sexual orientation ( which is none of anyone else's business anyway!).
O
orchidbri
Guest
Je Suis Charlie!
As an artist, and as a Christian, and as a human being, I can say "Je Suis Charlie!"
I agree with what NYEric wrote:
Insert "gay," "atheist," "Muslim," or whatever other word you wish, and it would not ring any less true.
As an artist, and as a Christian, and as a human being, I can say "Je Suis Charlie!"
I agree with what NYEric wrote:
Insert "gay," "atheist," "Muslim," or whatever other word you wish, and it would not ring any less true.
If God needs to be avenged, he is not God. If men and women feels they need to avenge him, they have no faith. If there was a God, he would be well above this nonsense.
No atheist would kill in the name of God. We should all be atheists.
No atheist would kill in the name of God. We should all be atheists.
Really? If Baal worshipers hadn't been wiped out by Rome for child sacrifice would you still fight to the death for them to practice child sacrifice?
A rather extreme example. The moderate point being that: why should be who harm other people be allowed to continue harming other people simply because that is what they want to do?
Blanket tolerance is not a virtue. Andre Comte Sponville makes this point very clear in his "A Short Treatise on the Great Virtues." Excellent reading if you have the stomach for 300+ pages of moral-philosophy.
They just kill generically?
