Is it true paph's take 7-10 years before they make 1 st flowers?!?!!!?

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Kat

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I talked to a proffesional grower today (and everyone know him but I won't mention his name) and he tells me that Phaph's take 7-10 years before I may get a first shoot/bud.
Is this true?
I really can't believe this...
 
G

goldenrose

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Some can from the seed or flask stage. One can buy blooming size plants (which means they should bloom within a year).
I should add that the larger the adult plant size, the longer it will normally take to bloom. Smaller the adult plant size, they can be bloooming size in a couple of years.
 

Leo Schordje

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There are two things that determine how long it takes to bloom a Paph from seed. One is the genetics of the individual paph seedling you have. The second is the skill of the grower.
. To the first point, if you bought a batch of 25 seedlings, and if you grew them well, in all likelyhood a couple or so seedlings would gallop ahead of the pack and bloom a year or more earlier than the main group of seedlings. Then there would be the main group blooming, then as much as several years later the stragglers would bloom. This is normal. Now when you buy a single Paph seedling, it is hard to know whether you have a 'leader', 'middle of the pack', or a 'straggler'. There is no fixed answer, you just have to grow it and see. Some Paphs, especially the bigger ones are slow growers. It is very normal for growers who use standard growing techniques, for Paphs stonei and rothschildianum to take minimum 5, often 7 or 10 years to mature. Some Paphs such as Paph Maudiae, can be bloomed from seed in as little as 3 years. It all depends on genetics, there are tendancies for certain species & hybrids, but there is no absolute fix time period.
. Second point. If your culture is less than ideal, it will take longer to bloom your Paphs. If your conditions are ideal, you can match or beat the times published in the books or on the forums. I have a Paph Transvaal in bloom today, that I bought as a seedling in 1991. This is the first time it has bloomed for me. I have been watering it for 17 years. It should have bloomed 15 years ago, but several times over the years I would rot roots off, or dry it out too hard, or not give it enough light, or something. I would get it close to blooming size and then screw something up, set it back and have to start over again. Each time it would take 3 or 5 years to get it back to where it was before I made the last mistake. Today it is in bloom because for the last 5 years I have met or exceeded the bare minimums of its needs. And like an idiot, I forgot that AOS Judging was Saturday and I could have shown it. I may be dead of old age before I bloom it this well again. Oh well, I have shown it to a few friends, that counts.
. So the interplay between your growing conditions and the specific genetics of the seedling you are growing is the reason that you should not put much stock in statements about how long it will take to bloom something. It is guesswork. The plants bloom when mature and happy, however long it takes.
 

Gilda

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Very well said Leo !! My advice for new paph growers. ..buy mature , healthy plants...any mature healthy paph grows so much better and is easier to care for than a seedling size. IF you rot the roots, etc on a paph...unless you have the patience of Job, toss it in the garbage, learn from your mistake ,but start with another mature healthy plant...in my humble opinion it is not worth the years it takes for a sickly plant to recover.
Leo, my hat is off to you for the patience you had with the Transvaal !:clap:
 

tocarmar

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Kat,
Yes , it can take 7-10 years before they bloom. Like Leo said & did from experience even longer. Depending on the species, or the hybrid it can take that long to bloom them out, or less, 3-5 for some Maudiaes, & the smaller species (fowliei, primulinum).
Then if you want to go from the start of pollination, for example, I just sent some seed to Troy Meyers & he did the Assays on the seed & flasked them, (93%) for the 1 cross it took 11 months for the seed pod to mature, now I have to wait for it to germinate. Hopefully in 3-6 weeks. Then, after they germinate I can receive the seedlings in about 60-75 WEEKS. With this cross (primulinum var. flavum x charlesworthii) it should bloom in about 5 years + or - a year or so.

Tom
 
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Kat

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WOW.
Hmm. how do I know if I'm buying a young adult plant? I mean I've heard everything from growers so I need to know by looking at them if possible.
Edumcation...
 

tocarmar

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Kat,
A young adult plant to me is a first bloom seedling. Depending on what species or hybrid it is it could be 1 growth, or multi unbloomed growths.

Tom
 
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Kat

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Got it but when purchasing a new plant how can you tell the age or be close to guessing?
The person selling may tell you it's the first year bloom but it may be the
19th.
 

paphioboy

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Kat, a first time blooming plant usually has only 1 'fan' of leaves, with the spike coming out from the center (for Maudiaes, brachys etc..) Multiflorals usually must have several growths before they produce the first spike. In my opinion, if it is the plant's 19th time blooming, then it must be really free-flowering and a large one at that.. :D Better pick it up at once...
 

NYEric

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Yeah, if it's the 19th blooming buy it now. Usually the more mature and established a plant is the bigger it is and the more expensive it is.
 

tocarmar

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Kat,
A fan or growth only blooms 1 time, so 19th time blooming would be a plant with 19 growths/fans or a really big specimen!!

Tom
 
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GaryB

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Sam Tsui (Orchid Inn) has told me on a couple of occasions that he is able to bloom sanderianums in 4 years from flask.
 

Candace

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I bloomed out a roth very young, with only one flower and then it promptly died.:mad: So, sometimes I'll cut the spike if the plant is small and blooming may stress it out too much. But I echo many of the comments to buy the largest plant you can afford, especially as a newbie. If I'm going to lose a plant, odds are it's a small seedling. If it's a multi-growth plant and one growth rots out, you can still save the other growths. If it's a single growth plant and it rots out, you're usually screwed.
 
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Kat

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Kat,
A fan or growth only blooms 1 time, so 19th time blooming would be a plant with 19 growths/fans or a really big specimen!!

Tom
Hmm, you mean that the same plant fan only will sprout one flower then it must grow another plant before it flowers again????
If I have a smaller plant that is all alone in it's pot and it looses its flower through time It may never flower or make itself a partner plant?
 

paphioboy

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Hmm, you mean that the same plant fan only will sprout one flower then it must grow another plant before it flowers again????
Yes, Kat. One fan of leaves will only bear 1 spike of flowers, which may carry a single bloom or several, depending on the type of slipper orchid that you have.

If I have a smaller plant that is all alone in it's pot and it looses its flower through time It may never flower or make itself a partner plant?
After the flower drops from the spike, that same growth will not flower again. But, it will send out a new shoot from the base of the old fan, which will grow into a new fan and flowers when it matures. I suppose that is what you meant by partner plant :p so the more growths a paph or phrag has, the more flowers it will give you when it blooms...
 

NYEric

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Almost all orchids either grow new "partner plants" or new spikes. I've seen orchids that are over 100 Y.O. All it takes is good genes and good culture. :)
 

Leo Schordje

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after 17 years -it finally bloomed

I have finally taken the time to catch up a bit with photos. Here is a picture of the Paph Transvaal that has take me 17 years to bloom for the first time. The reason it has been so slow is that every now and then I would accidentally set the growth back, and it would take years to recover. I finally got 5 or so years in a row of 'good enough' culture in, so it bloomed. It should have or could have bloomed 12 years ago if I did not rot the roots off.



Heather - can you help? the url is right for the image, what is wrong with the tags?
Leo
 

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