C
Clark
Guest
Me too Dot.
The candlelight dinners are losing their novelty.
Thanks
The candlelight dinners are losing their novelty.
Thanks
Hurricane Sandy
- Thread starter The Mutant
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Brushing up on my history I can see that many in the past were far more powerful and that it was "freak" conditions which caused the major problems (flooding etc...) but what blows my mind is how unprepared people are for the clean-up.
Every year in Cape Town there are fires and flooding in the low-lying areas (where all the poor people were forced to live 40+ years ago). Disaster is inevitable and we are now fully prepared to deal with it. The various NGOs and government stock up on blankets, food, tents etc... so that at any one time they can deal with two years worth of disaster at once. And the gov. workers and utilities are drilled on ensuring power etc... comes back quickly. Every thing I see on the news suggests there was no clean-up plan. People are sitting out in the cold and all the Salvation Army can do is offer hot chocolate and cookies. Where are the blankets, food parcels etc..? There were comments about the people should have been prepared etc... or evacuated. But how do you get several million people out of a small area? If every person rushed out to setup an emergency supply all the shops would have been exhausted before half the people were set.
Among death and taxes you can add the certainty of stupidity. People innately function as if they believe the good times will never end. So any half-decent leader would prepare for disaster with this in mind: that many people will be found utterly unprepared when the worst comes to the worst... It seems to me that the aid operation for the 2004 Dec 26 Earthquake in SE Asia got better US military coordinated aid than NYC and NJ. In any disaster the major needs are going to be clean water, warmth, food and hygiene. After Katrina one would have thought your Fed. Gov. & FEMA would have had a plan put together to aid a major city in the wake of disaster, meeting the afore mentioned needs. It just seems to me that your leaders are only prepared for photo-ops in the midst of a disaster. I'm surprised your President wasn't posing on the NJ beach with an ice-cream cone like he was for oil-rig disaster. You should really vote the whole mess out for proving, beyond doubt, their inability to foresee consequences of inevitable consequences.
Over hear we have an utterly corrupt government but we deal effectively with disaster.
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
If we vote the whole mess out we will just get another equivalent, but new, mess. Disaster preparedness costs money....and where will the money come from? Somehow I don't think it will trickle down from huge business profits.......
Americans have an undying phobia of the possibility of taxes....they fear the possibility even more than the taxes themselves. One of the reasons for the paralysis of government here is that nearly all the members of one of our governing parties have taken a nonsensical "pledge" to never, ever, under any circumstances, even think the thought of raising taxes, for any purpose whatsoever, no excuses. Voting them out does no good if they are not replaced by anything better. Have you ever looked up a sewage outflow pipe to see what is coming after all the crap has poured out? You guessed it- more sewage! There has always been a "vote the bums out" sentiment in this country. So we vote the bums out, then vote some more in. Realistically, who really wants to become a politician? A caring pragmatic individual who only has the good of the country/state/city at heart? If you believe so, I have a very nice bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you at a discount......
Americans have an undying phobia of the possibility of taxes....they fear the possibility even more than the taxes themselves. One of the reasons for the paralysis of government here is that nearly all the members of one of our governing parties have taken a nonsensical "pledge" to never, ever, under any circumstances, even think the thought of raising taxes, for any purpose whatsoever, no excuses. Voting them out does no good if they are not replaced by anything better. Have you ever looked up a sewage outflow pipe to see what is coming after all the crap has poured out? You guessed it- more sewage! There has always been a "vote the bums out" sentiment in this country. So we vote the bums out, then vote some more in. Realistically, who really wants to become a politician? A caring pragmatic individual who only has the good of the country/state/city at heart? If you believe so, I have a very nice bridge in Brooklyn I can sell you at a discount......
I read there is now a viral outbreak... Water, food, shelter, hygiene. Why is that so hard for a disaster relief agency to get right?
Yes, Eric. Politics is very much like a man buying a dog to guard his house but then the dog barks all night, so he gets another dog which barks all night, so her gets another dog... It isn't so much that you bought a dog which barks as much as that dogs, by definition, bark. Similarly, politicians, by definition: lie, sell-out and serve themselves etc... if they didn't they wouldn't go far in politics. But your comments about business not being very helpful isn't exactly accurate. Read this (yes, the author is bit over the top in his interpretation but his facts rarely are out). (Oh, this little book on taxes and economics may give you another perspective to consider.) Faceless unaccountable government organisations rarely deliver for the simple reason that they are faceless and unaccountable. More often than not they just get in the way. My Rotary Club is trying to upgrade several poor inner city schools. The Department of Education is more of a hindrance than a help. If we didn't have an inside man in Parliament who can call the Department out and kick up a fuss nothing would ever happen. Each of the damned bureaucrats would just follow the rules because as long as they follow the rules they get to keep their job. The more people can do for themselves without government interference the more can get done.
Having the benefit of being 1000s of miles away from the problem of the of exchange bums every election, it seems to me that the problem is that the general populace have been conned into believing that their only options are Democrat Bum 1 and Republican Bum 2 (which, lets face it, are perfectly interchangeable) when there are other well meaning (and often more consistent, ethical and honorable) candidates who never get considered. This idea of voting for the contender most likely at standing a shot at winning sounds to me just as much of a sell out as the politicians choosing one stance over another because it will win votes (rather than whether it is right or wrong). Of course, being 1000s of miles away means this isn't any of my business. I have enough problems here. The 2nd largest political party wants to turn us into a 2-party state where every year we get to vote between idiot 1 and 2 to run the country into the ground. Personally, I prefer the 1-party state where I have very little responsibility for whomever the President is who is running the country into the ground.
Eric, tell me more about that bridge... The ferry to Robben Island keeps breaking down and we need to get the high-paying tourists across in a timely fashion to gawk at Nelson Mandela's prison cell.
I fear, all this political talk will offend sensitive viewers and we'll end up in "The Outback" but if we can't discuss religion, sex and politics what else is there to talk about? The weather? Oh... that's politics again.
FYI: I am thrilled with the election outcome. This means more US investors fleeing to developing countries like South Africa. I see already the $ is taking a knock as the smart money flees. Bad news for all my unemployed and struggling friends in the US though.
Yes, Eric. Politics is very much like a man buying a dog to guard his house but then the dog barks all night, so he gets another dog which barks all night, so her gets another dog... It isn't so much that you bought a dog which barks as much as that dogs, by definition, bark. Similarly, politicians, by definition: lie, sell-out and serve themselves etc... if they didn't they wouldn't go far in politics. But your comments about business not being very helpful isn't exactly accurate. Read this (yes, the author is bit over the top in his interpretation but his facts rarely are out). (Oh, this little book on taxes and economics may give you another perspective to consider.) Faceless unaccountable government organisations rarely deliver for the simple reason that they are faceless and unaccountable. More often than not they just get in the way. My Rotary Club is trying to upgrade several poor inner city schools. The Department of Education is more of a hindrance than a help. If we didn't have an inside man in Parliament who can call the Department out and kick up a fuss nothing would ever happen. Each of the damned bureaucrats would just follow the rules because as long as they follow the rules they get to keep their job. The more people can do for themselves without government interference the more can get done.
Having the benefit of being 1000s of miles away from the problem of the of exchange bums every election, it seems to me that the problem is that the general populace have been conned into believing that their only options are Democrat Bum 1 and Republican Bum 2 (which, lets face it, are perfectly interchangeable) when there are other well meaning (and often more consistent, ethical and honorable) candidates who never get considered. This idea of voting for the contender most likely at standing a shot at winning sounds to me just as much of a sell out as the politicians choosing one stance over another because it will win votes (rather than whether it is right or wrong). Of course, being 1000s of miles away means this isn't any of my business. I have enough problems here. The 2nd largest political party wants to turn us into a 2-party state where every year we get to vote between idiot 1 and 2 to run the country into the ground. Personally, I prefer the 1-party state where I have very little responsibility for whomever the President is who is running the country into the ground.
Eric, tell me more about that bridge... The ferry to Robben Island keeps breaking down and we need to get the high-paying tourists across in a timely fashion to gawk at Nelson Mandela's prison cell.
I fear, all this political talk will offend sensitive viewers and we'll end up in "The Outback" but if we can't discuss religion, sex and politics what else is there to talk about? The weather? Oh... that's politics again.
FYI: I am thrilled with the election outcome. This means more US investors fleeing to developing countries like South Africa. I see already the $ is taking a knock as the smart money flees. Bad news for all my unemployed and struggling friends in the US though.
I believe that the viral outbreak was the meningitis that's been around for a few months, unless i'm wrong; that is tied to bad known standards at a pharmaceutical plant
business people were on record as stating that they would close their businesses if the current president were to be retained. the people here believe whatever they see on their televisions and smart phones, whether or not it's the truth, and if it's not exactly kosher there is no press saying that it's wrong (Because the tv companies are owned by the same ones who own politicians), so everyone just keeps saying baaa and walking towards the cliff. almost everyone swallows the nonsense which keeps moving the people into strong division, which will only get worse because the news says that this is what they should do. I heard two days ago that american large companies already have the highest tax burden of all nations (who says the u.s. isn't a world leader in something), and heard examples of large corporations who used to be here and have left for other places, and how much money they are saving now. I work with many refugees who after a few years, can easily see that the current administration is messed up, and our jobs, which will be gone if nobody buys our greenhouse, which will be difficult because who has money, our layoffs will be permanent, they all know that if the present group stays jobs will not come back.
tyrone, though you say many things that make sense, the disaster agency can't hold everyone's hand and force them to do what is sanitary.. though I have no ties to any federal group disaster agency, people can only be given the information and have to act accordingly. there are many relief agencies trying to help out, many non-governmental, and they can assist but only can help when they have enough donations and man and woman power, and even though they can tell everyone to be clean and safe, it's up to the people to pay attention.
though I am all for voting out bums when needed, many times people make a fuss and say 'this one is bad'.. but when it comes time to vote they continue to vote the party line. some don't, but often in some areas the stagnant voters (ones who never change) overwhelm any others. and I have heard many times, that politicians are the way they are, because the views that they express are often those of the general population, so how could you possibly find politicians with clean hearts and minds, when they are just expressing the general state of mind of the population? garbage in means garbage out (different expression of what eric m already pointed out). if the general population didn't agree with the radical directions of officials, they would be voted out; since they continue to think that the present officials are okay, they must be either completely brainwashed, or as corrupt in heart and mind as the officials they can't vote out office (because the 'other guy' will be big business etc, same old nonsense)
business people were on record as stating that they would close their businesses if the current president were to be retained. the people here believe whatever they see on their televisions and smart phones, whether or not it's the truth, and if it's not exactly kosher there is no press saying that it's wrong (Because the tv companies are owned by the same ones who own politicians), so everyone just keeps saying baaa and walking towards the cliff. almost everyone swallows the nonsense which keeps moving the people into strong division, which will only get worse because the news says that this is what they should do. I heard two days ago that american large companies already have the highest tax burden of all nations (who says the u.s. isn't a world leader in something), and heard examples of large corporations who used to be here and have left for other places, and how much money they are saving now. I work with many refugees who after a few years, can easily see that the current administration is messed up, and our jobs, which will be gone if nobody buys our greenhouse, which will be difficult because who has money, our layoffs will be permanent, they all know that if the present group stays jobs will not come back.
tyrone, though you say many things that make sense, the disaster agency can't hold everyone's hand and force them to do what is sanitary.. though I have no ties to any federal group disaster agency, people can only be given the information and have to act accordingly. there are many relief agencies trying to help out, many non-governmental, and they can assist but only can help when they have enough donations and man and woman power, and even though they can tell everyone to be clean and safe, it's up to the people to pay attention.
though I am all for voting out bums when needed, many times people make a fuss and say 'this one is bad'.. but when it comes time to vote they continue to vote the party line. some don't, but often in some areas the stagnant voters (ones who never change) overwhelm any others. and I have heard many times, that politicians are the way they are, because the views that they express are often those of the general population, so how could you possibly find politicians with clean hearts and minds, when they are just expressing the general state of mind of the population? garbage in means garbage out (different expression of what eric m already pointed out). if the general population didn't agree with the radical directions of officials, they would be voted out; since they continue to think that the present officials are okay, they must be either completely brainwashed, or as corrupt in heart and mind as the officials they can't vote out office (because the 'other guy' will be big business etc, same old nonsense)
C
Clark
Guest
AM radio station 1010 Wins reported this morning that the FEMA office on Staten Island closed on Wednesday.
Sign on door said- Closed Today Due To Weather.
Hahahahaha.
Sign on door said- Closed Today Due To Weather.
Hahahahaha.
P
Paul Mc
Guest
Classic!!!
My cousin once told me that he pays tax to the government to help the poor---or something to that effect. A friend said he shouldn't pay tax because he gives to charity... To my mind they are both wrong. Government can't care for the poor for the simple reason that is doesn't have heart. Tax money is for heartless things like roads, unprofitable but needed public infrastructure etc... I pay my tax for these things and get irate when I see some politician riding a way with a million Rand BMW after using my tax money to buy the vote of some women churning out children to collect the government child grant.
I joined Rotary because its my job to help those kids where their mother can't. (If government was doing its job by building roads, instituting the rule of law and facilitating commerce instead of hindering it maybe that woman would have job?*) Public perceptions about tax and charity are totally insane.My gripe with the handling of Sandy is this: why can the US military be so effective delivering clean water, food, shelter and sanitation to people on the other side of the world after the Dec 26 2004 earthquake but FEMA can't sort out its own back-yard? Disaster relief is about providing that which people, in their private capacity (for whatever reason), can't. From what I understand FEMA has the power to institute marshal law, but it doesn't have the power to deliver clean water and soap?
That bugs the hell out of me. The people of NY and NJ suffer needlessly for the want of good leader.No doubt after the dust has settled there will be appeals for more money to FEMA etc... when what is needed is more good people. Mao wrote that in war guns are important but people are decisive. This is a truth which applies to all situations.
It doesn't matter how much money is spent, you can't do good work with bad people.
* To be clear, I don't think people should sit on their bums and wait for government to fly in and rescue them by building a road. A village in India got so frustrating waiting for the government to build a road that they eventually built the road themselves to get their good to market. People don't need government to hold their hands, they can do it themselves---if they want to.
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
Tyrone- one of the criticisms I've seen about how Mayor Bloomberg and Gov. Cuomo handled Sandy is that they never called for the National Guard, and just relied on an overstressed police force, many of whom had damaged or destroyed homes themselves. As I said, it had been predicted that a big storm would flood the lower areas of the city, but, historically, even though we have had far more powerful hurricanes hit (the one in 1938 rearranged the south shore barrier islands, creating the Shinnecock Inlet), nothing this destructive has ever hit NYC and the whole region before. Nothing. And again....while this was big, in size (800+miles across), it still wasn't THE BIG ONE, not by a long shot.
gnathaniel
Lurker
Weather is the subject of politics because industrialists seek to convince us that only the immediately attributable and monetarily quantifiable consequences of their actions are relevant to the national, and human, interest. As science (including economics, which can in fact quantify many possible, likely, and actual consequences of shifting climates) is largely uncaring and erosive of such fictions, the recent means of defending short-term profits for the wealthy in exchange for longer-term social and economic destruction has been attacks on science by people utterly uncaring of empirical truth.
I'm also thrilled, but don't get too excited about capital flight! I think it's fair to say that any money pulled out of the US and sent to S.A. based solely on the election results is by definition not 'smart.' Hopefully loss of that kind of money will help trim some of the greed and bloat from the US economy, but I fear things won't be as positive for those countries where it ends up...
oke:
SlipperFan
Addicted
Well said.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
The big tree that came down at our bldg.
...but I fear things won't be as positive for those countries where it ends up...
Indeed. Massive capital investment in developing economies results in 1st world problems among 3rd world infrastructure. Over the last 10 years we have seen massive development with foreign investment with a massive increase in the middle class. This has cause massive inflation in consumer goods and real estate. Increases in consumer goods (i.e. food and clothes etc) have been met by the unions by massive wage demands (which they normally get) which has resulted in a contraction of industry. This has swelled the ranks of the poverty stricken. Things are rather precarious right now in South Africa. The poor see our beloved leaders sporting luxuries and are justifiably upset, but their response has been to demand their "fair" share (of other peoples' hard earned money) rather than demand the heads of the corrupt. But such is life. Its the same everywhere. But that capital infusion will create work here which is badly needed, and a few more 100 people who have work is better than those few 100 people being destitute.
Gnathaniel, you better hope whoever is managing your pension fund is investing your money off-shore. The only way the USA is going to dig itself out of its massive debt (250k per family on last guess) is currency devaluation. With a shrinking "young" population, and minimum wage which makes manufacturing uncompetitive, there is no way the USA can grow its economy fast enough to cover the interest let alone pay the debt back if the US$ remains as it is. A lot of commentators are referring back to FDR and the economic recovery which was supposedly because of the New Deal. This idea is crushed by John Kenneth Galbraith by his account of the dramatic economic turn around after WWII (recorded in the The World at War---a really good read!). He explained the economic turn around as being due to personal savings. During the war, the US government paid workers to make arms etc... but there was nothing for them to buy (other than food) so they saved the money (buying war bonds etc...). After the war there were again things to buy and lots of money to spend and invest. Today the average US citizen doesn't have any savings (much like the average South Africa), so there is no capital for investment and every $1 spent by credit costs $1.10 (or there about) to buy from China. Same story for the Reagan boom except people suddenly had money in their pocket because the Gov hadn't taken it as tax.
Eric, sad about the tree :sob: but trying to photograph some of those beautiful NY building was a pain for all the trees... So, on the brighter side, NYC is now a lot more photogenic.
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