How rothschildianum with a pedigree should look like in truth....

[Roth]

So, I bought from Paph Paradise 2 rothschildianum cross, Dark Angel x Howard Martin, and Paradise Island x Paradise Lost. 3 years after deflasking, I bloomed them all.

Everyone can see that if the rothschildianum sold have the real pedigree, there are no ugly runts like many people post, from others suppliers....

I can post more, just picked up a few random photos from the entire batch, but it is all the Paph Paradise results, my greenhouse, my deflasking, my culture... You can recognize the parents in the good as well as the 'bad' ones if any are really bad. It is not the case with a couple very 'popular' suppliers, where none of the plants bloom even remotely close to the supposed pedigree. It can be nice to try spiritual meditation 'it does not look like the parent, but the supplier is amazing honest and great' rinse, and repeat, or just recognize that what was sold, was not from the said parents...

I will post some of my older roth crosses, and well, none of the seedlings ever bloom 'out of the range' from the parents...

 

[Martin]

Bam

 

[monocotman]

Xavier, very interesting. So how do you know where to buy roths that are true to pedigree? Are there any general rules that you follow?

 

[Ozpaph]

Ill need a much bigger GH if i use pots of that size..........................fantastic growing

 

[My Green Pets]

Outstanding plants and flowers.

So you are saying that there are vendors out there that intentionally mislabel their plants, but Paph Paradise sells the real thing. I'd like to hear more on this, as it is quite a statement.

 

[Roth]

Outstanding plants and flowers.

So you are saying that there are vendors out there that intentionally mislabel their plants, but Paph Paradise sells the real thing. I'd like to hear more on this, as it is quite a statement.

There are vendors indeed that buy generic roths and other Paphiopedilum, but as well some others orchids, from wholesalers, generic species, or various growers, and shove up awarded parent tags to sell them.

There are rothschildianum out there that sell for 10-15us a large NBS seeedling, no parentage/pedigree, just roth x roth. I saw and I see them, as well as I see quite a lot of other species by the wholesalers. I see them, again, with a pristine clean pedigree, offered by many 'growers' and 'breeders'. I see sometimes weird orders by some very famous nurseries of those things... whilst they never appear as such on their pricelist.

I gave the example of few of the total rothschildianum I bloomed from Paph Paradise 2 crosses. They all fall within the parents. I have grown a couple of other grower's rothshildianum, including two that should remain nameless. Out of 10,20,30 plants per some crosses, NONE looked even remotely close to the parents, neither the plant, nor the flowers.

If you look at the US sold 'Raptor' crosses as an example, no one has ever bloomed a 'Raptor' cross even remotely close to that parent. How curious is that? It applies to many other parents as well.

Then, you have another problem... I get flasks from Paph Paradise, or Shen Liu when he was still selling roth flasks. All bloom, all within the parents, even the 'runts'... I do my own roth crosses, all within the parents. I bloom my Mt Millais clumps regularly, as well as my other roths motherplants, no problems...

I saw as well several rothschildianum 'Chao Chou' x 'Hulk' in bloom in France, from In-Charm. They were all really nice, and definitely between the parents. No runts...

I had to grow for a friend some roth with 'amazing pedigree', US ones, but as welli 2 different European crosses ( Anja GM/DOG x self, and L'Amazone x Aigle Noir, well regarded by hobbyists). None is even remotely 'average' they are way, way below, the plants and flowers do not look like the parents at all. Same growing conditions.

Where it goes from bad to seriously fucked up is that some hobbyists attended the Dresde show. I sold some of my roth Dark Angel x Howard Martin in bloom early March. Well, one of those plants from me, in rockwool, was introduced as 'a first bloom seedling of Anja' to them. Nope... The same seller was introducing a primary hybrid of urbanianum that was an accident by a pot plant nursery as a new species as well...

Below is a plant with a tag rothschildianum 'Anja' x self, that I bloomed at the same time as the few dozens roths from Paph Paradise. Google rothschildianum Anja GM/DOG . So either I was amazingly unlucky, and I bloomed the worst of the worst of the entire grex, or it is not a progeny of Anja, but was sold as such. Coincidentally, a wholesaler has the same flower type available for very cheap... and I bloomed L Amazone x Aige Noir, another famous European cross, exactly the same plant type, exactly the same flower..... 2 'breeders', 1 pot plant roth source. Others have bloomed L'Amazone x Frank, but as well some plants x Mt Millais from the USA.

I am not alone, go on Facebook, or Google, and google some of those AJOS/AOS amazing grexes. Since 2-3 years, a lot of people around the world bloom them, None remotely close to the parents, and now it makes dozens if not more of photos available online.

Why I post this myself? Because the fun is that no one can say I have to grow better my plants, and the flowering will improve the next times, etc... Many of the roth out there are definitely not from the pedigree, and it is definitely a scam...

 

[Tony]

Looks just like my 'New Horizon'x 'Raptor' blooms

 

[Happypaphy7]

Sad but mostly true. Not roth, but I have been approached by certain venders and breeders about taking my plant with a different tag for entering the award. I just gave them a gentle smile (in reality I was saying eff off in my mind lol).
And this was over some insignificant Cattleya hybrid and one Oncidium. Imagine what could happen and are happening with things like roth as Xavier claims here. Not to mention some newly discovered thus in high demand or some rare plants.
Unfortunately, where there is demand and money involved, there will be greed and dishonesty. Just how things are in the world.

 

[Happypaphy7]

By the way, what I am most curious about as I am sure many others think the same, is how you grow your roths.
I know you have shared PDF file here a few years ago and I read it through.
Could you share regarding your roth culture here?
Briefly like light level, temperature range day and night throughout the year, humidity level throughout the year if you do change them, potting mix, fertilizer and any additives, watering,,,if it's secret other than what was shared in the precious file, then, I understand.
Thanks in advance!

 

[spujr]

I also would love to read the culture info, 3 years flask to bloom!

So essentially all 'Raptor' crosses misnamed?

 

[kiwi]

This is from a flask of New Horizon x Raptor from Sam. I think it looks as though it has a good mix of both parents IMHO.

 

[Roth]

This is from a flask of New Horizon x Raptor from Sam. I think it looks as though it has a good mix of both parents IMHO.View attachment 39667

It's a nice one and from a flask, I saw quite a few of your photos and indeed you grow them really well.

In France as well, some flasks did give good plants... Not everyone is really good at deflasking flasks and selling 25-40cm leafspan roth in a reliable way if you see what I mean.

For the good mix of both parents, I would disagree when you look at the color and the dorsal... ( see back my photos of the Dark Angel x Howard Martin plants, I took a bit of everything in terms of quality, in photo...)

As for the pedigree, good question...

Here is New Horizon

https://www.paphiopedilum.org.uk/fu...6-bcc4-5532c76a8170/48/?i=48&s=style-j7j67e2u
and here is Raptor, whose NONE of the seedlings sold out as plants of it ever gave anything close to it.This type of dosal tends as well to be very dominant with the veins between the stripes, and we do not see it in any of the progeny...