Fertilizer for kovachii & others

[gdupont]

I have liquid Dyna-Go Grow (7-9-5), and would like to use it for my kovachii. Does that sound ok to use? The suggested dose is 1/4 to 1/2 tsp every time you water. More info.

I also have Jack's Classic All Purpose 20-20-20, water soluble, recommended dose:1/2 tsp per gallon per week or 1/4 tsp per gallon every time you water. More info

Third option is water soluble Orchid Plus by Better Gro (20-14-13), no urea), recommended dose: 1 tsp per gallon every time you water. More info

What should I use? Thanks.

I also have besseae, adreettae, Mexipedium xerophyticum, and Paphiopedilum tigrinum. Which would be best for those, and at what dosage?

 

[Rick]

I grow all of these (and I would say successfully) except for andreettae - but I have fisherii doing very well.

I would probably use the Orchid Plus in a tap water / RO mix with a base hardness of 50 mg/L as CaCO3 at a rate of around 1/4 teaspoon per 20 gallons (so total Nitrogen hitting the plant is around 5ppm or less).

 

[Rick]

OK so checked some math.


A 20% N fert provides roughly 200mg N per gram of product.

a 1/4 teaspoon holds roughly 1 gram of dry fert (but very approximate since a teaspoon is a liquid volume not a dry mass measurement).

a gallon = 3.785L so 1gram of a 20%N fert into a gallon of water = ~50mg/L or 50 ppm N

I apply feed at 5 ppm or less N (daily, or semihydroponically with phrags) so I need to dilute this amount by 10gal rather than 20gal to get a 5ppm solution.

 

[gdupont]

OK so checked some math.





A 20% N fert provides roughly 200mg N per gram of product.



a 1/4 teaspoon holds roughly 1 gram of dry fert (but very approximate since a teaspoon is a liquid volume not a dry mass measurement).



a gallon = 3.785L so 1gram of a 20%N fert into a gallon of water = ~50mg/L or 50 ppm N



I apply feed at 5 ppm or less N (daily, or semihydroponically with phrags) so I need to dilute this amount by 10gal rather than 20gal to get a 5ppm solution.

Hi, Rick,

Thanks so much for this! So, i was hoping to just to add the fertilizer to a 1 gallon bottle of RO water, how much should I add? I struggle with these calculations, my apologies!


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[Rick]

Well its going to be tough to measure out 1/40th of a teaspoon of a dry product which is why I went up on bucket rather than down on measuring spoon.


You could make a 10X concentrate (10tspoons per gallon) and dip out your 1/4 tsp out of this to put in your gallon.

(keeping the concentrate in the fridge between use). This is essentially what I do.

 

[Rick]

Also I can't tell how much Calcium and Magnesium are in these fert mixes, but soluble Ca should be higher than N.

Which is why I would not use these ferts in straight RO but some mixture of RO and tap water to ensure plenty of calcium and magnesium.

in the wild kovachii always have plenty of soluble calcium and magnesium around the roots (equivalent to fairly hard tap water), but miniscule amounts of NPK

 

[gdupont]

Also I can't tell how much Calcium and Magnesium are in these fert mixes, but soluble Ca should be higher than N.

Which is why I would not use these ferts in straight RO but some mixture of RO and tap water to ensure plenty of calcium and magnesium.

in the wild kovachii always have plenty of soluble calcium and magnesium around the roots (equivalent to fairly hard tap water), but miniscule amounts of NPK

Thanks again, so much, for your help. That's a great idea about keeping the concentrate in the fridge. As for more info on the fert's contents, I have attached an image. It's a 16 oz package.

 

[Stone]

Thanks again, so much, for your help. That's a great idea about keeping the concentrate in the fridge. As for more info on the fert's contents, I have attached an image. It's a 16 oz package.

You will get better results with higher Mo, higher Mn, lower P and some Ca. Magnesium is nowhere near important as it is made out to be. There is enough there. IMO!
Mix this 50/50 with a GOOD hydroponic fertilizer with the proper amount of Mo (or supplement it) That will reduce the P and increase the Mn (hopefully) and boost your Ca. Add fine shell grit as well.

 

[gdupont]

You will get better results with higher Mo, higher Mn, lower P and some Ca. Magnesium is nowhere near important as it is made out to be. There is enough there. IMO!

Mix this 50/50 with a GOOD hydroponic fertilizer with the proper amount of Mo (or supplement it) That will reduce the P and increase the Mn (hopefully) and boost your Ca. Add fine shell grit as well.

Ok, thanks. Would that Dyna-Gro Grow I originally mentioned go well with this? Given that it's respected as a "good hydroponic fertilizer."


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[Rick]

Thanks again, so much, for your help. That's a great idea about keeping the concentrate in the fridge. As for more info on the fert's contents, I have attached an image. It's a 16 oz package.

You'll need to use this stuff with a tap water since it has no calcium salts at all and the magnesium is only there as a trace.

 

[gdupont]

You'll need to use this stuff with a tap water since it has no calcium salts at all and the magnesium is only there as a trace.

Ok, thanks. I shouldn't mix it with other fertilizers in your opinion, as Stone suggested?



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[Rick]

Ok, thanks. I shouldn't mix it with other fertilizers in your opinion, as Stone suggested?



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I wouldn't bother.

Brandon Tan with the Huntington botanical garden is doing great with Los Angeles tap water and simple calcium nitrate supplementation. In fact most tap waters often have more than enough K and P to grow orchids well without needing anything more than a dash of a nitrogen source.

I think you could use any of the 3 mixes you presented interchangeably as long as you use them at much more dilute rates than the bottle recommendations and use them in a tap water to get enough Ca and Mg (which is virtually anywhere in the US). The NPK ratios of Orchid Plus is closer to what I use on my plants.

You can search through other threads on PK culture where I posted the water chemistry analysis for water samples taken from around the roots of wild PK (if you want to formulate your own plan). But generally orchids are masters of living in nutrient impoverished conditions, and we end up making things a lot tougher on ourselves and the plants by applying nutrients at orders of magnitude more than they see in nature.

 

[gdupont]

I wouldn't bother.

Brandon Tan with the Huntington botanical garden is doing great with Los Angeles tap water and simple calcium nitrate supplementation. In fact most tap waters often have more than enough K and P to grow orchids well without needing anything more than a dash of a nitrogen source.

I think you could use any of the 3 mixes you presented interchangeably as long as you use them at much more dilute rates than the bottle recommendations and use them in a tap water to get enough Ca and Mg (which is virtually anywhere in the US). The NPK ratios of Orchid Plus is closer to what I use on my plants.

You can search through other threads on PK culture where I posted the water chemistry analysis for water samples taken from around the roots of wild PK (if you want to formulate your own plan). But generally orchids are masters of living in nutrient impoverished conditions, and we end up making things a lot tougher on ourselves and the plants by applying nutrients at orders of magnitude more than they see in nature.

Great. Thank you again, Rick. You have been immensely helpful.

 

[Rick]

Can you get your tap water report?

These days it is often online and provided by the health department.

I'm on a well and work in an aquatic toxicology lab, so end up doing my own analysis. But I've formulated quite a few feeding plans off of basic water reports over the years.

 

[gdupont]

Can you get your tap water report?

These days it is often online and provided by the health department.

I'm on a well and work in an aquatic toxicology lab, so end up doing my own analysis. But I've formulated quite a few feeding plans off of basic water reports over the years.

That sounds like a pretty cool job. I was once interested in Toxicology, but struggle with chemistry, so I sort of gave up on that path.

I found my tap water report.

I'm in the Cornell or CUWS section.

If anything sticks out to you with it, or have any ideas for things I should try, feel free to let me know! Thanks.

 

[Rick]

This is one of those minimal reports that is written to meet human health criteria concerns but there is some useful info and some fill in the blank info you can extrapolate from the other two source waters.

Hardness is 150 mg/L (that's considered "hard" water by EPA standards. Nashville tap water has hardness of 80-100 mg/L (as CaCO3) which is the EPA standard for "moderately" hard water. My well water often has hardness >400mg/L in comparison.

Your alkalinity is 140mg/L (primarily bicarbonate ion) which compliments the hardness. TDS for Cornell was not measured, but given the higher hardness and alkalinity + the published sodium (Na) of 23 mg/L the TDS should be a little higher than the 207 mg/L for City of Ithica.

They didn't report K and P (generally not a human health concern, but I suspect this water should have 1-5 mg/L K (Nashville runs 4mg/L). P may be very low (<<1ppm due to water treatment processes). This water already has a dash of nitrate in it (about 0.6 mg/L) but not enough for orchid work without a touch of supplementation.

So I'd use this water diluted to 1/3 with RO for a hardness of 50mg/L

 

[Stone]

Ok, thanks. Would that Dyna-Gro Grow I originally mentioned go well with this? Given that it's respected as a "good hydroponic fertilizer."


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I don't know what dyna grow is. If it is formulated as a hydroponic then probably yes. My Kovachii is growing perfectly well with 12 pellets of Fe-free osmocote, and some solid organic fertilizer and some crushed shell powder.