Ebb and Flow for Phrags

[Candace]

Well, I'm about a week or two away from starting my ebb and flow venture with phrags. Since phrags don't care for heaving feeding, I will have to experiment with foliar feeding and what I put in my solution. Anyone grow phrags this way? I'd appreciate any tips or caveats as this will be new for me!

 

[Erythrone]

Since my Phrag love to rot when I wet the crown, I never use foliar feeding.

 

[NYEric]

I would avoid it also. If you're doing ebb and flow, just flush w/ unfertilized water once a month.

I was thinking this might be the best way to go. I don't want to over fertilize though, so.... I don't know what the best TDS for phrags would be as I fertilize them pretty rarely and only use R.O. currently.

 

[Lanmark]

I don't grow Phrags but I do have experience with ebb and flow.

I don't know how much moisture you hope to maintain at the roots, but be very watchful as you get to know how things work. Be prepared to adjust the frequency and timing of your flood and drain cycles until you get things just right. LECA holds water, and generally it will be either more than you expect or less than you hope. :rollhappy:

Use a dilute solution of fertilizer, very dilute if you are worried about overfeeding. Be sure to check the TDS and the pH levels frequently. These values can and do change (the pH can change quite rapidly) as ions are exchanged between the roots and the ebb & flow solution.

Always be vigilant, watching for any sourness, foulness, excessive clouding or "rotting" odor coming from your reservoir of ebb & flow solution.

Don't allow your ebb & flow solution to become too cold unless your Phrags like cold roots.

I wish I could give you information which is more specific to Phrags, but perhaps you'll at least find something useful in what I've shared.

 

[Candace]

I'm thinking about maybe using a aquarium heater if necessary during the winter, or stepping back the watering significantly. Though, my resevoir would be actual g.h. temp...

 

[Rick]

Since I only do species phrags I couldn't generalize for all phrags and their hybrids.

I have all my "short" petaled swamp dwellers in some form of SH that "ebb and flows" based on how leaky the trays are

I also broadcast spray (foliar spray) everything and I don't think I've ever seen a case of crown rot (just basal Erwinia problems during the summer) in my phrags.

Longifolium, pearcei, and their hybrids will probably go nuts for you in this system.

I'm very pleased with the results of my sphag/wooden basket method for the long petaled phrags. I planted an exstaminodium, a beat up lindenii, and a wallisii, and they are all producing new growths, roots, and elongating leaves.

I took a chance on the exstaminodium since I saw the tip of a bract in the crown of the oldest mature growth when I replanted, and the spike has now grown at least 2 inches.

 

[Rick]

Seems like Ed M has an ebb and flow bench for a bunch of his phrags.

I haven't seen him much lately, maybe you could PM him.

 

[Shiva]

I wouldn't use such a system. I prefer to water every plant individually. That way I can isolate any plant that has a problem quickly. Ebb and flow may solve some problems but it also may create others. It's just a different can of worms to me.

 

[Wendy]

I wouldn't use such a system. I prefer to water every plant individually. That way I can isolate any plant that has a problem quickly. Ebb and flow may solve some problems but it also may create others. It's just a different can of worms to me.

Agreed. If one plant has a pathogen then they will all get to share it. Like Shiva I prefer the one at a time method. I do have ebb and flow trays but the drain is never shut and the water runs freely out into the catch bucket. That way no one is sitting in anyone else's 'germs'.

 

[Candace]

Agreed. If one plant has a pathogen then they will all get to share it. Like Shiva I prefer the one at a time method. I do have ebb and flow trays but the drain is never shut and the water runs freely out into the catch bucket. That way no one is sitting in anyone else's 'germs'.

In the ebb and flow method the nutrient solution is drained away.

I've grown in s/h for years, so it's not much of a jump.

 

[Candace]

Seems like Ed M has an ebb and flow bench for a bunch of his phrags.

I haven't seen him much lately, maybe you could PM him.

That was with his disas, which ran through a cooler. I think they all died after a break down of the system:<

 

[NYEric]

I wouldn't worry about water temp that much unless your water is very cold.

 

[Justin]

with recirculating systems i would be way too paranoid about virus or other pathogen spreading...

 

[gonewild]

I used ebb/flo for phrag seedlings in Leca. It worked great for a while. After some time it became evident that salts were accumulating on the media surface. This caused a problem for the new root tips that phrags put out at surface level. So since I needed to flush the surface frequently anyway I stopped the flood irrigation method.

I think ebb/flo method works great for short term crops but for plants like orchids that live forever it is not the best. But Phrags will love you if you them sit in an inch of water, just make sure you have tall pots.

 

[Candace]

I used ebb/flo for phrag seedlings in Leca. It worked great for a while. After some time it became evident that salts were accumulating on the media surface. This caused a problem for the new root tips that phrags put out at surface level. So since I needed to flush the surface frequently anyway I stopped the flood irrigation method.

I think ebb/flo method works great for short term crops but for plants like orchids that live forever it is not the best. But Phrags will love you if you them sit in an inch of water, just make sure you have tall pots.

I'm not fully convinced I should do the ebb and flow thing as I've had so much success keeping them in a small amount of RO. And I'd have to spend several hundred $ on more resevoirs as only 1 came with the set-up I bought. I may just put on large hole in the tray that can be plugged up and drain it occasionally to flush it. Rather than the recirculation. It would be much cheaper for me.

 

[gonewild]

If you already have a reservoir and pump you might consider circulating the water that the plants sit in. The roots that grow out of the pot into the water would respond favorably to water movement.

One thing to consider about growing the plants in water is that the roots do grow out the bottom and into the water. The plants will grow great like this but when if you want to take a plant out of the water a problem may arise. The water roots will surely break off. Also when time comes to repot the water roots break off. Some Phrags absolutely don't like having their most active roots all broken off.

 

[Candace]

If you already have a reservoir and pump you might consider circulating the water that the plants sit in. The roots that grow out of the pot into the water would respond favorably to water movement.

One thing to consider about growing the plants in water is that the roots do grow out the bottom and into the water. The plants will grow great like this but when if you want to take a plant out of the water a problem may arise. The water roots will surely break off. Also when time comes to repot the water roots break off. Some Phrags absolutely don't like having their most active roots all broken off.

Root breakage would be a consideration, I'm sure. I think the best way to handle this would be plastic pots that could be cut rather than cutting roots.

 

[Rick]

That was with his disas, which ran through a cooler. I think they all died after a break down of the system:<

That was something else. The refrigerator did fail, and then he "stole" Lydias frig from the house to try to salvage them. I don't think he salvaged much, but Lydia got a new fridge out of the deal.

He also had some big shelf size trays with phrags in them that he told me he would periodically flood, and then drain out slowly.

 

[gonewild]

Root breakage would be a consideration, I'm sure. I think the best way to handle this would be plastic pots that could be cut rather than cutting roots.

That's what I thought but it was impossible to cut away the pots without breaking the roots. When these roots on Phrags crack the root just dies off. Maybe an open bottom pot with a large mesh on the bottom to hold in a layer of coarse leca at the bottom.

 

[Candace]

That's what I thought but it was impossible to cut away the pots without breaking the roots. When these roots on Phrags crack the root just dies off. Maybe an open bottom pot with a large mesh on the bottom to hold in a layer of coarse leca at the bottom.

There are some plastic net type pots that I've got-I think they'd be pretty easy to cut. Though, if I stick to the same method I use now, I'll just pot them in spagnum and repot every 6-8 months. I did NOT have success with my phrags in leca. They like spag. much better. I could also experiment with rock wool or grow-cubes. Most likely, if the roots start to escape, I'd just repot.