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Greenthings

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Ok you guys, you need to move your argument to something a little more private. This is not an appropriate place for that.
-blake
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now with 50% more alcohol...

Blake,

Jerry and I were having a discussion about flowering times of Phragmipedium
wallisii and the reason why he receiveds his Pk hybrids sooner than
someone else.

I like an explanation why you figure this warrants closure of a thread,
for it is part and parcel of this department.

I joined this forum for I was told there is no undue censorship

as on the other one many of you quit. Now I am not so certain.

This closure is absolutely ridiculous and it puts you on the same censored level as the other one.


Peter
 

gonewild

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As a participating member I object to closing the informative thread.
I was going to make a post.

Are you going to close the thread about the new Prime Agra also?
Who slammed Ray?

No censorship as the founder Phrag intended.
 

bwester

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This was NOT censorship. The "informative" thread was becoming objectionable to other members of the forum. To follow-up on the complaints, I merely closed that particular thread and recommended that the argument be taken elsewhere. I did not delete anything or ban anyone. However, it was becoming less and less informative and more of a pissing match between Peter and Jason. In regards to the comments on Ray, I was offering feedback on a vendor that I have bought from multiple times and feel that I have mistreated by. It is a completely different situation and I think you know that. If you have a problem with the decision I made, take it up with an administrator.
 
G

Greenthings

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To the administrators of Slipper Talk,

I expect an apology from Blake

I request from the rest of you, that you unlock the thread which Bake locked for no good reason at all. In that thread a civil discussion was still going on, no accusations were made, and I know I spoke the truth, as I always do.

That is exactly what this group wants to hear.



If there was some outside pressure on Blake, you better get to the bottom of it. If it was his own sick need for power, he needs a kick in the ass and be
relieved from his responsibiloities at Slipper Talk
 
G

Greenthings

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Blake,

You have not even read the post that you closed. It was not a discussion with Jason, but with Jerry Fischer.

If there were objections from the scubscribers, then let them tell us all in a post in our faces, rather than doing it anonomously behind our backs . That is being cowards. You as an adminstrator, or whatever the heck you are, should know better than to act on the urging of cowards that dare not post or show their face.Those people should never have joined this forum.

Jerry Fischer, I do not know you very well. I do not consider you a coward
I just hope that it was not you who requested the thread closed.

Blake, I think you should excuse yourself from this position, you just can't handle it.

Peter

I
 

likespaphs

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perhaps i also didn't read it closely enough, but i thought it was a lot of throwing poo at others. i don't really think that there was going to be any satisfying outcome for anyone from that thread and actually kinda think that it was a good idea to close it....
 
G

Greenthings

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bwester said:
This was NOT censorship. The "informative" thread was becoming objectionable to other members of the forum. To follow-up on the complaints, I merely closed that particular thread and recommended that the argument be taken elsewhere. I did not delete anything or ban anyone. However, it was becoming less and less informative and more of a pissing match between Peter and Jason. In regards to the comments on Ray, I was offering feedback on a vendor that I have bought from multiple times and feel that I have mistreated by. It is a completely different situation and I think you know that. If you have a problem with the decision I made, take it up with an administrator.

Right, you make a lot of sense Blake. :-( :-( You close a thread on flowering times of a species but it is ok to say that you were mistreated by a vendor.

Tell you what, I do not believe there was a single complaint, the closure of the thread emerged from your own weird sense of what is right and what is wrong. Get real !!
 
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Greenthings

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likespaphs said:
perhaps i also didn't read it closely enough, but i thought it was a lot of throwing poo at others. i don't really think that there was going to be any satisfying outcome for anyone from that thread and actually kinda think that it was a good idea to close it....

Well if nothing else came out this thread, it is good to know where you stand, likespaphs. You tell me where I threw poo at anyone in my last Post with Jerry Fischer.
 

kentuckiense

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Ok, I'm going to put on my moderator hat.

Personally, I disagree with Blake's decision to close that thread. I don't feel closing the thread was needed. However, as a fellow moderator, I'm going to respect his decision. Heather or PHRAG can reopen the thread if that is what they want.

This part is directly squarely at you, Peter. I've found your posts about this whole saga to be interesting. I'm glad you're here presenting what you know. However, stop telling us how to run this forum. You demand that Blake be removed as a moderator? Now you sound no better than those that called for your banning at SOF. And please, do not expect an apology from anyone.
 

bwester

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Are you done with your tantrum, Peter? I mean, seriously man, grow up. I didnt censor you or violate your rights or club any baby seals. I merely suggested that you carry on whatever it is that you were doing somewhere more private, like in an email or pm. I stand by what I did, since I think it was in the best interest of the forum and I will NOT under any circumstances apologize to you. Get over it, this too shall pass.
 

gonewild

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bwester said:
This was NOT censorship. The "informative" thread was becoming objectionable to other members of the forum.
Who? where is ther posts objecting? They can always choose not to read the thread can't they?

To follow-up on the complaints, I merely closed that particular thread and recommended that the argument be taken elsewhere. I did not delete anything or ban anyone.
A big part of the thread was about leaf shape, seed maturation, and growth difference. You did block access to those portions of the thread and put the information under a different light.

However, it was becoming less and less informative
It actually was becoming very informative for many people worldwide who actually have invested in kovachii flasks and plants.

and more of a pissing match between Peter and Jason.
So what? They both big enough to manage their own zippers.

In regards to the comments on Ray, I was offering feedback on a vendor that I have bought from multiple times and feel that I have mistreated by. It is a completely different situation and I think you know that.
I appreciate your comments about Ray and his product. I think the subject is important and needs to be talked about because it effects orchid culture. But I bet Ray does not agree with you and would like the thread closed. You seem to be the only one to report an issue with it so why can not Ray claim you are being objectionable? (btw please come back to that thread)

I don't think it is completely different from the kovachii thread. I think both threads have merit because they affect orchid growing.


If you have a problem with the decision I made, take it up with an administrator.
To close the thread based on your opinion is censorship and the forum founders promised this would never happen. Today it did.

Gain respect, admit error and correct it, are you not an administrator?
 

gonewild

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likespaphs said:
perhaps i also didn't read it closely enough, but i thought it was a lot of throwing poo at others. i don't really think that there was going to be any satisfying outcome for anyone from that thread and actually kinda think that it was a good idea to close it....
Perhaps to those who have not invested time, effort and or money into a kovachii plant it might seem like poo throwing. But maybe you would want to read all this had you bought a kovachii flask for $1080 and the seedlings never grew, died in flask, or now may not even be kovachii.

Closing the thread is a disservice to kovachii owners who may be less than happy with what they have.

I personally want to hear both sides of all arguments so I can form my own opinions. I don't want the teacher telling me I can't read a book if it is not pre approved.
 

Heather

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Okay, everybody, deeeep breath.

Forgive me, I actually had important things to do today with orchids and was not around for all the drama.

I have just read this thread, and the message it was related too and I'd like to respond to a few things.

I cannot always be here, nor can any of the other members of the admin. team (which includes Blake). Blake was around and emailed me that he thought things were getting heated. I emailed back saying that if people were making threats or there was name-calling going on, people should be reprimanded. He felt closing the thread was the thing to do, hoping to diffuse what had been a heated situation earlier in the week.

Upon returning home and having a chance to read the last message posted by Peter Croezen, I agree that I don't think it was inflamatory.
No one "puts pressure" on the admin. team. We try to make decisions that are best for the community as a whole. Today, no one was around to make decisions except for Blake and he did a fine job, and we've all now discussed the decision and have decided to re-open the thread.

I will be re-opening the thread.

I'd like to remind people of a few things.

1) Read the rules. Treat members with respect. Speak to others as you would like to be spoken to.
2) This forum is about FREE SPEECH, but nothing was deleted or censored here, if that sort of thing was tolerated here, this thread would have been deleted before anyone saw the first message!

3) and most importantly.
Fer Christsake! THEY'RE PLANTS people! Chill out a little! :)
 

gonewild

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Censorship lesson 101.....

Here are two quotes from a famous person.
Can anyone tell use who wrote this?
Can anyone tell us how these quotes do not apply to the closed thread?

"This forum was started with the hope that it would become a place that orchid enthusiasts would feel FREE to say pretty much whatever they wanted with very few limitations to that freedom"

"If you have a problem with another member, you are FREE to voice your problem with them right out in the open. If you can't say it directly to them, don't say it at all."
 

likespaphs

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i can understand your points. if i had read it more closely i would have seen it for what it was...
although i didn't ask that it be closed, it seemed that it was descending to poo throwing and that it was questioning the credibility of some people here in the u.s. which is why closing it was no big deal to me. i take it that's not the case... but then again, i have nothing at stake... no seedlings nor much interest in kovachii other than seeing them in bloom.
 
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Greenthings

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Thanks Heather for putting the thread back on this forum

I love freedom. You understand that is what this was all about.
 

likespaphs

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i also don't think blake was wrong for closing it. it was his call and he did what he thought was right.... we'll call it a time out.
 
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Greenthings

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bwester said:
Are you done with your tantrum, Peter? I mean, seriously man, grow up. I didnt censor you or violate your rights or club any baby seals. I merely suggested that you carry on whatever it is that you were doing somewhere more private, like in an email or pm. I stand by what I did, since I think it was in the best interest of the forum and I will NOT under any circumstances apologize to you. Get over it, this too shall pass.

Blake, please send me a blank e-mail so I can send you a very private message. orchids at golden dot net.

peter
 

gonewild

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likespaphs said:
i also don't think blake was wrong for closing it. it was his call and he did what he thought was right.... we'll call it a time out.
I appreciate you voiced your opinion on the censorship subject.

I believe Blake had his reasons but I think he acted hastily in closing the thread based on the forums stated foundation.

There is no need for a time out. This is an adult forum. ;)
 

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