Great research and provenance of the BB cultivars! Keep it on!!
Cattleya Bob Betts awards and cultivars
- Thread starter terryros
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great thread, just came across it! I have 'Liberty Hill' and 'The Virgin'. I also have (I believe) the parents of the original Bob Betts cross, Bow Bells 'Honolulu' and "mossiae" aka Gravesiana 'Snow Queen' in case anyone wants to grow their very own BB seedlings...
Do you have your own pictures of those two parents?
That is a great Bow Bells.
I originally bought Bow Bells ‘Honolulu’ from Matthias. He has a few divisions of plants he got from Plato Matthews before he passed. Unfortunately when I tested it upon arrival it was virused. It had been tested in 2022 when it came to Matthias from Plato and was negative, however, probably was infected then just too low a viral load to show it.
Plato, as he went through cancer treatment, recovery and then COVID, had a lot of helpers taking care of and repotting for him. In some cases tags were mixed up, and because he kept old virused originals, some things that were clean were infected. When I visited his nursery after the cancer, his plants were not in great shape and one of the two I got then was virused. Dave Off got the majority of Plato’s stock after his death and some of those (not old classics) were also virused.
There are apparently very few (maybe a handful) of original ‘Honolulu’ around, but I did get one (originally Joe Grezaffi’s) from Dave Off. Matthias did stand behind the plant I got from him and because he couldn’t replace it with a clean one, refunded my money without question.
Your story nicely tells why and how it has been so difficult to keep many of the great, heritage Cattleyas in cultivation. Life happens to growers, virus creeps in, tags jump around, plants change hands and have to be shipped. This is not an easy or cheap hobby.
I wandered into heirloom catts relatively recently, and only got a handful of plants from Plato. Only one was virused (with ORSV, which he refunded). The 'Honolulu' was a back division I got from Plato the year before he passed, and is clean (to clarify, it has tested Agdia negative a couple times). The first plant I got from him a few years prior was Bow Bells 'Rex', also clean. I remember talking to Dave about that one, since mine always blooms with a tiny bit of magenta speckle in the lips. He got 'Rex' more recently from Plato but his piece was virused. I sold a nice back division of 'Honolulu' on ebay earlier this year, someone got a bargain at $65. maybe next time I should post the good stuff here first...
Just harvested the pod on my Bow Bells "sib" cross 'Rex' x 'Honolulu'....will see if anyone here wants seedlings if there is germination. The bulk of the plants will be grown by Lee Orchids...
Just harvested the pod on my Bow Bells "sib" cross 'Rex' x 'Honolulu'....will see if anyone here wants seedlings if there is germination. The bulk of the plants will be grown by Lee Orchids...
There is a small group of excellent growers who are trying to care for these heirloom Cattleyas. I sense that these plants are sometimes like works of art.
Thanks. Then it looks like Matthias might have inadvertently infected it after he got it. He grows some really nice heirloom catts, so it happens even with the most careful culture. In my small 9 x 12 room I really strive to be virus free as it's pretty impossible not to touch things as I have to lift and bring to a sink to water. I check everything that comes in, comes back from a show or is repotted. Yet after 2 years of virus free, I checked 3 plants returning from a show last year (after a month or so) and two of them were virused. So, now I take gloves and razor blades and instruct anyone who is responsible for grooming before they go to the display to please use them if touching my plant after touching another. That doesn't limit an insect, etc., from spreading something, though. I always hold my breath when I'm repotting and checking anything really valuable. Fortunately, so far, no old originals have been infected...
I have to say I consider myself fairly paranoid when it comes to virus. Everything in the door gets tested. I do think it is reliable to batch test via Agdia, the extra tissue has never given me a false positive. Of course that doesn't rule out false negatives, or the dozen or two "other" viruses that may exist.
I recently started submitting plants to my OS for shows, but insisted that all the plastic name stakes get tossed. I think that is an easy and sneaky way to spread virus. I can't conceptually think of how casual handling of pots should spread virus, or even the top layer of mosses etc, although I guess anything is possible...and I wouldn't allow anyone to "groom" my plants! For us at least people who donate their time to set up just put the plants up and take down, no time for trimming or anything else!
I have found that virus testing is definitely more "entrenched" in the heirloom catt community. I dabble in a few novelty phals and at least several vendors couldn't care less if the expensive stem prop you purchase from them harbors virus...I will say phals seem somehow to often remain completely asymptomatic, even with ORSV, for reasons unclear to me.
I recently started submitting plants to my OS for shows, but insisted that all the plastic name stakes get tossed. I think that is an easy and sneaky way to spread virus. I can't conceptually think of how casual handling of pots should spread virus, or even the top layer of mosses etc, although I guess anything is possible...and I wouldn't allow anyone to "groom" my plants! For us at least people who donate their time to set up just put the plants up and take down, no time for trimming or anything else!
I have found that virus testing is definitely more "entrenched" in the heirloom catt community. I dabble in a few novelty phals and at least several vendors couldn't care less if the expensive stem prop you purchase from them harbors virus...I will say phals seem somehow to often remain completely asymptomatic, even with ORSV, for reasons unclear to me.
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Phals are notoriously virused because those that are mass producing them wet harvest the seeds. I’ve had 3 plants of the variegated leafed Sogo Vivien and all 3 were virused! Also have had a few phrags virused. So far, no Paphs, though.
I also think nobody seems to care, one might think that a stem prop running 100-150 or so might be handled more scrupuously, but one would seem to be mistaken! I have had 1 phrag test positive for ORSV (one of the "sedenii wilcox" aka Cardinale), and like 3 or 4 paphs. Most of the paphs were divisions of old cultivars, and I'm pretty sure they all came to me virused since a couple of them came from growers who seem to have a lot of positives...
I have to care…. I lost 1/3 of my collection to viruses after about 3-4 years of growing under lights and increasing my collection. I grow in a 9 x 12 climate controlled grow room. I have to lift plants and bring to the sink to water. Plants touch often and when I repot, I do my best, but if something were virused it would almost assuredly spread it. I repot nothing without testing (why waste the time on a positive plant). I also test everything that comes in, a couple of months after plants return from a show and every plant every 2 years if not repotting. Because I’m so limited in space I’ve started collecting clean originals many of which are heirloom plants. It would be a crime to infect a clean C. trianae Mary Fennell that’s stayed virus free since it was jungle collected at the turn of the 20th century by Lee Arthur Fennell. The ones he used for hybridizing in pots were infected (no one knew about viruses in the early days) but his nursery Orchid Jungle’s claim to fame, on one hand, is that all the orchids were displayed growing in trees like in their natural habitat! And those were never touched, so consequently stayed clean! So the few who were fortunate enough to purchase one of those before or right after Hurricane Andrew destroyed the trees in August, 1992, have original Mary Fennell‘s that are clean. There are only a few out there, tightly held, and definitely worth protecting! I see it as a responsibility.
And most collectors must hope for the “clean” mericloning technique to make some of these fantastic orchids available. The difficulty mericloning Paphs and Phrags is a problem here, but an increasing number of outstanding Cattleyas are appearing as clean mericlones from some vendors. They won’t always be exactly like the original, but they will usually be very close.
You are right. Finally a process in mericloning that removes all virus so no can show up years later (assuming you don’t infect it!). Expensive, but many are beginning to be done and are becoming available. ‘Firmin Lambeau’; ‘’Clement Moore; ‘F.M.B’; ‘Edith Bolling Wilson’; Farrah Fawcett, ‘The President’; and recently ‘Clinkaberryana’ was listed on eBay. I’m sure there are others I’m not aware of.
I am 100% with you although it is a difficult, frustrating, and ultimately perhaps futile thing to try to keep a room virus free. (not to mention all the other 'secondary' viruses that may be lurking out there). In general the cattleya growers care about virus a lot more. Phal growers, barely at all in my experience. I have gotten an earful in the past when asking phal vendors, commercial and hobbyist, if I can return a plant if it tests positive. Agree also on the responsibility of caring for some of these rare plants given their history...
In my room the cattleyas are crowded and the roots tend to grow into their neighbor's pots...bad practice by me but it's what happens when you grow too many plants. I'm sure nobody else here has that problem...
