C. Nancy Off '1290'

[NEslipper]

The Waldor Orchids flagship cross from their cut flower days, C. Nancy Off is the cross C. Bebe White x C. Joyce Hannington and was registered in 1956. Notable because there is no C. Bow Bells in the background of this cross, it's one of the few fine heirloom whites that can't be traced back to Bow Bells. This particular grex produced a large number of fine individuals, many of which Waldor still sells as original, virus-free divisions the most famous of these is their 89 point AM/AOS 'Linwood' variety. The '1290' individual is unnamed, but can give flowers as large, if not larger, than 'Linwood' but without the fine round form. Vigorous and free-flowering, this plant really earns its keep on my windowsill - it has a small footprint, it's still in a 3 inch pot even though it has standard size flowers. It's also extremely fragrant, almost to the point of being overwhelming. Last years blooming can be found HERE. I've thought about "upgrading" to the 'Linwood' variety, but there's something about this flower that I really love, and it's less commonly grown.


Here are the heirloom whites currently in bloom on my windowsill. Left to right C. Earl 'Imperialis' FCC/AOS, C. Nancy Off '1290', and C. Athena Chagaris 'Orchidhaven':

 

[Linus_Cello]

Waldor is selling at the NCOS show. Maybe pre-order this?

 

[TyroneGenade]

I am very impressed by the massive flowers on plants in such so small pots. How do you stop the plants from running wild?

 

[Carmella.carey]

I think the best variety of Nancy Off, other than `Linwood', is `640' which is now called `Maria', named for Scott & Nancy Off's daughter.
One to keep your eye out for. Very full flowers, not as flat as Linwood but a bit larger.

 

[NEslipper]

I am very impressed by the massive flowers on plants in such so small pots. How do you stop the plants from running wild?

This one just happens to have tall slender growths that grow very close together. Wonderful for saving space, but not so wonderful for balance when it has large, heavy flowers -it has already taken a tumble while breaking down the photo setup….

I have plenty of catts that are running wild, they’re just not pictured, haha. I’m going to have to do some serious dividing and repotting this spring to get things back in line.

 

[NEslipper]

I think the best variety of Nancy Off, other than `Linwood', is `640' which is now called `Maria', named for Scott & Nancy Off's daughter.
One to keep your eye out for. Very full flowers, not as flat as Linwood but a bit larger.

In an ideal world I would be able to grow all the different Nancy Off varieties including the other AM/AOS variety ‘Elizabeth’ from 1979, but alas, I don’t have space enough for all of them, so this is the variety I chose to go with. Flat and round is wonderful, but sometimes it’s nice to have a variety of flower shapes. Thanks for the info!

 

[tomp]

Wowzerrr What a fabulous display!

 

[PeteM]

Looking sharp, Lovely to see them together in bloom.

 

[terryros]

While Nancy Off does not have Bow Bells in its background, it still owes its success to the real star, Suzanne Hye.

Bow Bells was 75% Suzanne Hye, while Nancy Off is 34% Suzanne Hye.

I have a Waldors mericlone of an almost-white heritage RLC. Pastoral ‘Innocence” FCC/AOS (registered in 1961). It has no Bow Bells in the ancestry but still has 12.5% Suzanne Hye. Here is a picture of mine from earlier this year.



Chadwicks noted that Britain's Black and Flory company created the original Suzanne Hye (gaskelliana x mossiae), a spontaneous tetraploid. It has been difficult to recreate this plant, lost at sea on its way to the US during WWII. However, a white cultivar was shown in 2001 by Orquideas Nitsuga and awarded an AM/AOS (82 points) (‘Nitsuga White’) that was 17.3 cm wide and had two inflorescences, each with three flowers. I have no idea whether chemically-induced polyploidy was involved.

A cerulea Suzanne Hye was awarded in 2015 to Plato Mathews (AM, 83 points), which was 17.8 cm wide and had three flowers on the inflorescence. Again, I do not know how it was created, but Suzanne Hye may return as a parent.

 

[NEslipper]

While Nancy Off does not have Bow Bells in its background, it still owes its success to the real star, Suzanne Hye.

Bow Bells was 75% Suzanne Hye, while Nancy Off is 34% Suzanne Hye.

I have a Waldors mericlone of an almost-white heritage RLC. Pastoral ‘Innocence” FCC/AOS (registered in 1961). It has no Bow Bells in the ancestry but still has 12.5% Suzanne Hye. Here is a picture of mine from earlier this year.

View attachment 45384

Chadwicks noted that Britain's Black and Flory company created the original Suzanne Hye (gaskelliana x mossiae), a spontaneous tetraploid. It has been difficult to recreate this plant, lost at sea on its way to the US during WWII. However, a white cultivar was shown in 2001 by Orquideas Nitsuga and awarded an AM/AOS (82 points) (‘Nitsuga White’) that was 17.3 cm wide and had two inflorescences, each with three flowers. I have no idea whether chemically-induced polyploidy was involved.

A cerulea Suzanne Hye was awarded in 2015 to Plato Mathews (AM, 83 points), which was 17.8 cm wide and had three flowers on the inflorescence. Again, I do not know how it was created, but Suzanne Hye may return as a parent.

Orchids Limited currently has 4N coerulea seedlings for sale. I haven’t pulled the trigger due to space, but it’s very tempting.
https://www.orchidweb.com/orchids/c...iae-coerulea-4n-x-gaskelliana-var-coerulea-4n

 

[NEslipper]

Orchids Limited currently has 4N coerulea seedlings for sale. I haven’t pulled the trigger due to space, but it’s very tempting.
https://www.orchidweb.com/orchids/c...iae-coerulea-4n-x-gaskelliana-var-coerulea-4n

My guess is that the ultimate goal is to remake Bow Bells as a coerulea. A 4N Suzanne Hye is needed to have any hope of achieving something with similar form and vigor, but with a blue color.

 

[terryros]

Orchids Limited currently has 4N coerulea seedlings for sale. I haven’t pulled the trigger due to space, but it’s very tempting.
https://www.orchidweb.com/orchids/c...iae-coerulea-4n-x-gaskelliana-var-coerulea-4n

I have one. It has been growing slowly.

 

[NEslipper]

I have one. It has been growing slowly.

Sounds like a tetraploid!

 

[terryros]

Sounds like a tetraploid!

It’s supposed to be but I probably won’t know for a couple of years at this rate.

 

[Carmella.carey]

While Nancy Off does not have Bow Bells in its background, it still owes its success to the real star, Suzanne Hye.

Bow Bells was 75% Suzanne Hye, while Nancy Off is 34% Suzanne Hye.

I have a Waldors mericlone of an almost-white heritage RLC. Pastoral ‘Innocence” FCC/AOS (registered in 1961). It has no Bow Bells in the ancestry but still has 12.5% Suzanne Hye. Here is a picture of mine from earlier this year.

View attachment 45384

Chadwicks noted that Britain's Black and Flory company created the original Suzanne Hye (gaskelliana x mossiae), a spontaneous tetraploid. It has been difficult to recreate this plant, lost at sea on its way to the US during WWII. However, a white cultivar was shown in 2001 by Orquideas Nitsuga and awarded an AM/AOS (82 points) (‘Nitsuga White’) that was 17.3 cm wide and had two inflorescences, each with three flowers. I have no idea whether chemically-induced polyploidy was involved.

A cerulea Suzanne Hye was awarded in 2015 to Plato Mathews (AM, 83 points), which was 17.8 cm wide and had three flowers on the inflorescence. Again, I do not know how it was created, but Suzanne Hye may return as a parent.

Terry, I think you're mistaken, Black & Flory was not responsible for the creation of the Suzanne Hye that was used to make Cattleya Bow Bells. instead, they used the FCC/RHS variety, from the original grex, registered by Hye in 1906. it recived it's FCC in 1908. back then many awarded plants had no clonal names, they were known only as, for example, C. Suzanne Hye alba FCC/RHS. I think back then, breeding with really, not the best plants, it was winning the genetic lottery, and obviously the FCC Suzanne Hye is a fine example.

-Patrick

 

[terryros]

Thank, Patrick. Great to have access to that older information. The early days of hybridizing were wild with poor record keeping everywhere, from what I read. The early spontaneous tetraploids radically transformed the breeding.

 

[Carmella.carey]

Thank, Patrick. Great to have access to that older information. The early days of hybridizing were wild with poor record keeping everywhere, from what I read. The early spontaneous tetraploids radically transformed the breeding.

The RHS has a painting of the FCC Suzanne Hye, and it's not a great thing, with floppy petals and a very thin spike, but it bred white and was extremely fertile.

-Patrick

 

[terryros]

The RHS has a painting of the FCC Suzanne Hye, and it's not a great thing, with floppy petals and a very thin spike, but it bred white and was extremely fertile.

-Patrick

Maybe a bad painting? I have read that some Bow Bells were tetraploid and some were diploid. I guess we can’t tell whether Suzanne Hye or the Edithiae was polyploid in the original cross. I don’t think they could have both been diploid and then a number of spontaneous tetraploid Bow Bells came out of the mating.

 

[Carmella.carey]

Maybe a bad painting? I have read that some Bow Bells were tetraploid and some were diploid. I guess we can’t tell whether Suzanne Hye or the Edithiae was polyploid in the original cross. I don’t think they could have both been diploid and then a number of spontaneous tetraploid Bow Bells came out of the mating.

The clone used was C. Edithiae alba `White Empress' FCC/RHS and it is a proven 3N. now, weather it was a spontaneous polyploid, or if it came from Suzanne Hye, or trianae `Broomhills', or both I don't know.
NEslipper may know if `Broomhills' is polyploid. I think most Bow Bells were polyploid, but they were special because they were nearly all fertile.

-Patrick

 

[terryros]

The clone used was C. Edithiae alba `White Empress' FCC/RHS and it is a proven 3N. now, weather it was a spontaneous polyploid, or if it came from Suzanne Hye, or trianae `Broomhills', or both I don't know.
NEslipper may know if `Broomhills' is polyploid. I think most Bow Bells were polyploid, but they were special because they were nearly all fertile.

-Patrick

Are either ‘White Empress’ or ‘Broomhills’ still in existence?