At it again, this is very frustrating!
- Thread starter NYEric
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biothanasis
Guest
LOL... I was just looking at this seller on ebay at this very moment!!!!! Lots of the names are messed up though!!!!! LOL The pleiones seem nice...
NYEric
Well-Known Member
He has about 5 groups of cyps there that would set my hands on fire if I bought them. Since you're in Europe why don't you get some of those!?
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biothanasis
Guest
LOL... I recently bought some Cyps (different species) at lower prices and I cannot afford these prices...!!! LOL I was thinking of the pleiones before...! The S&H is much lower to your country...
! The S&H is much lower to your country...NYEric
Well-Known Member
The point is those species he's offering are tres hot!!!
B
biothanasis
Guest
:rollhappy::rollhappy::drool::drool:
kentuckiense
Debaser
I thought that seller came here and made some little pledge to stop selling wild collected plants. I guess that didn't last very long.
All of his Cypripediums are wild collected, difficult to grow species, and will likely die if purchased and grown by anyone other than an accomplished Cypripedium grower.
So, please don't purchase these Cyps. They will die and you will only be facilitating and encouraging more (and often illegal) collecting of wild Cypripediums.
All of his Cypripediums are wild collected, difficult to grow species, and will likely die if purchased and grown by anyone other than an accomplished Cypripedium grower.
So, please don't purchase these Cyps. They will die and you will only be facilitating and encouraging more (and often illegal) collecting of wild Cypripediums.
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biothanasis
Guest
That is what I thought Ken, cause of the Cyp lichiangiense that is sold and I remember your advice on this... Thanks again for the tip!!!
Thanks again for the tip!!!
kentuckiense
Debaser
I encourage anyone thinking about growing Cyps to read Tom's enlightening run-down of species: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6700
As for the species ChineseGreen is offering:
"new species" = album guttatum
"smithii" = calcicolum
As for the species ChineseGreen is offering:
"new species" = album guttatum
"smithii" = calcicolum
B
biothanasis
Guest
WOW!!! I hadn't seen these posts of Tom so far! Thanks Ken!!!
I am not sure that they are really forbidden fruits & not existing in the USA already.
Quite a few nurseries in the USA carrying them before in the past (maybe back 10 or so years ago).
I don't remember exactly which species anymore, but I am pretty sure the ones that were sold in USA were asians & not the common US native cyps (At that time my taste had not been sophisticate at all, so I did not buy them [not that my taste is any better now], I thought all orchids are the same, and I preferred phals, dens, catts etc... at the time)
So someone in the US are probably still growing them from those plants that were sold legally in the past.
Many years ago, Dragon Agro of New Jersey used to have many of these fancy cyps .(one that made the impression in my memory was the tibeticum). So obviously someone were capable to grow & propagate them.
We all fail in the ones peoples think easy, and vice versa. So it should not be a blanket statement that something is impossible to grow or propagate.
By the way, perhaps the number of sophisticate growers are not many, as a result, the growers can not make money selling high-art plants. First hand witness, I saw Dragon Agro selling phals & dens like hot cakes (you know the garden varieties) at the last GREATER NEW YORK ORCHID SOCIETY show at Rockefeller center .
on the plant listings they say that they're located in florida, but if you look down on plant descriptions they are 'sent from china'. so, is this deceptive advertising or are they actually in florida but originally from china?
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Oh, with those plants and in the numbers listed I know they're not in the USA. It was just annoying to see them listed, so close and yet so far!
BTW Hien, I tried and failed a few years ago w/ some of Pearl & Tito's cyps!
BTW Hien, I tried and failed a few years ago w/ some of Pearl & Tito's cyps!
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Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
As far as I know, cyps are not Appendix 1, and can be shipped with internationally with proper paperwork. The paphs are all in flask...and, unlike the other Chinese and Thai people on Ebay, he at least offers paperwork on the wholesale stuff...lets see if it can go through with the hangianum flask....not the best situation, but better than a lot of what I've seen from asia on Ebay. Take care, Eric
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Well, if any of you wholesale owners can get some of those cyps [that aren't available] at a 'wholesale' cost I'm sure you'll find customers here!
Eric,
you spent so much time volunteer at the GNYOS shows that you did not pay attention to what was sold.
Had you buy some of the rare asian cyps like tibeticum from Dragon Agro at those earlier shows, they would not have to stop raising cyps, and sell Taiwanese phal & dens instead to make a living.
oke:
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
You funny Hien:rollhappy:Eric,
you spent so much time volunteer at the GNYOS shows that you did not pay attention to what was sold.
Had you buy some of the rare asian cyps like tibeticum from Dragon Agro at those earlier shows, they would not have to stop raising cyps, and sell Taiwanese phal & dens instead to make a living.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Hien, don't forget those ever-popular heart shape plants!
PS if I had spent any more money at the GNYOS show I wouldn't have hands to type w/ now!
PS if I had spent any more money at the GNYOS show I wouldn't have hands to type w/ now!
KyushuCalanthe
Just call me Tom
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Definitely taken from the wild to be sold on the world market. The vast majority of Cyps coming out of China go back to one source, a "famous" exporter (a least in woodland perennial plant circles) who continues to successfully get plants out of the country. I guess it pays to have friends in high places.
A number of growers in Europe and the US have been working with micropropagating the Cyps making it out and at this point many have been successfully grown from seed. Having said that, US growers are not openly selling any of them. The reason is simple, they could get busted and their entire collections could be confiscated. It has happened to a few already. Enforcement of CITES is variable depending on the country. The US is very strict, but Canada much more lax. Same with the EU countries - plants are around for sale and 90% were wild taken. A number of species were grown in Germany before CITES took effect, so that is one way documentation has been created for some - they were in effect "grandfathered-in". Some of these have been exported to the US via different sources, most notably Paul Christian in the UK (one plant that comes to mind is C. froschii).
The flood of Chinese plants that hit the market in the late 90's were all wild collected. Like the bonanza on Paph. armeniacum and Paph. micranthum in the late 80's, the flow was unchecked for several years, but eventually the hammer came down. That is why you don't see them being sold openly anymore. The source didn't dry up, the regulations got tougher. BTW, most of those original plants that made it to the states entered into a veritable black hole - no body is talking about them so they are either dead or people are quietly growing them. Within the EU and Canada plants are more openly talked about and are being sold.
Take heart though Cyp growers! Due to the efforts of a number of people, more are coming available each year. One wholesaler in Belgium, Phytesia, in particular has been propagating and distributing a large number of species worldwide. As far as I know these are documented. Other companies have been busy as well, notably Judith Prins in Belgium, Paul Christian, Orchids by Post in the UK, and Werner Frosch in Germany (most of his stuff is hybrids, but not all). Others exist as well. Regarding Chinese companies, the only one that is micropropagating that I know of is Hengduan Mountains Biotechnology, LTD. in Sichuan. They aren't exporting yet, but keep your eyes open for plants in the coming years.
A number of growers in Europe and the US have been working with micropropagating the Cyps making it out and at this point many have been successfully grown from seed. Having said that, US growers are not openly selling any of them. The reason is simple, they could get busted and their entire collections could be confiscated. It has happened to a few already. Enforcement of CITES is variable depending on the country. The US is very strict, but Canada much more lax. Same with the EU countries - plants are around for sale and 90% were wild taken. A number of species were grown in Germany before CITES took effect, so that is one way documentation has been created for some - they were in effect "grandfathered-in". Some of these have been exported to the US via different sources, most notably Paul Christian in the UK (one plant that comes to mind is C. froschii).
The flood of Chinese plants that hit the market in the late 90's were all wild collected. Like the bonanza on Paph. armeniacum and Paph. micranthum in the late 80's, the flow was unchecked for several years, but eventually the hammer came down. That is why you don't see them being sold openly anymore. The source didn't dry up, the regulations got tougher. BTW, most of those original plants that made it to the states entered into a veritable black hole - no body is talking about them so they are either dead or people are quietly growing them. Within the EU and Canada plants are more openly talked about and are being sold.
Take heart though Cyp growers! Due to the efforts of a number of people, more are coming available each year. One wholesaler in Belgium, Phytesia, in particular has been propagating and distributing a large number of species worldwide. As far as I know these are documented. Other companies have been busy as well, notably Judith Prins in Belgium, Paul Christian, Orchids by Post in the UK, and Werner Frosch in Germany (most of his stuff is hybrids, but not all). Others exist as well. Regarding Chinese companies, the only one that is micropropagating that I know of is Hengduan Mountains Biotechnology, LTD. in Sichuan. They aren't exporting yet, but keep your eyes open for plants in the coming years.
NYEric
Well-Known Member
Thanx for the info - waiting.
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