Another fab Fritz from the Fischer’s.

Discussion in 'Phragmipedium' started by monocotman, Jan 20, 2020.

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  1. Jan 20, 2020 #1

    monocotman

    monocotman

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    Their flagship cross between two of the best examples of besseae and kovachii that you could wish to find, besseae ‘rob’s choice’ and kovachii ‘Tesoro morado’.
    This is the 2nd one of this cross that has flowered recently and it is much better than the first.
    It’s a first flowering seedling so there is still room for improvement. The flower is just over 10cm across.
    I’ll post better photos at the weekend.
    4AB2B29F-2DB9-4094-B28E-E5131A280255.jpeg
    8DF746EC-121D-4E8E-911B-253A02A4D02D.jpeg
    David
     
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  2. Jan 20, 2020 #2

    tomkalina

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    Stunning! Love the form and color.....
     
  3. Jan 20, 2020 #3

    cpmaniac

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    Gorgeous flower!
     
  4. Jan 21, 2020 #4

    abax

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    That deep color is stunning. Good growing!
     
  5. Jan 21, 2020 #5

    troy

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    Beautiful!!!
     
  6. Jan 21, 2020 #6

    Dandrobium

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    It would be tough to improve on that!
     
  7. Jan 22, 2020 #7

    NYEric

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    Yay besseae hybrids!
     
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  8. Jan 23, 2020 #8

    KateL

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    Excellent color and shape!
     
  9. Jan 23, 2020 #9

    BrucherT

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    It is impressive for sure. Wondering what all the specimens from the cross would look like lines up?
     
  10. Jan 23, 2020 #10

    KateL

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    I’ve got one in my back yard right now. The second flower just fell off and I’m waiting for the third (successive) bud to open. This is the second time its bloomed. I’ll post a pic and some measurements when it opens.
    My impression is that my plant is a nice shape and color, but would be even better if the flower was bigger. (I know size is only 10 points, but if you are looking for “improvements”, that’s a weighty 10 points.)
     
  11. Jan 23, 2020 #11

    monocotman

    monocotman

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    This one is pretty big for a very first bloom. The flower span at the moment is a shade over 11cm. The last awarded one that I could find on the web, ‘Top notch’ was just over 10cm. I’m looking forward to seeing this flower when it’s grown up in couple of years,
    David
     
  12. Jan 24, 2020 #12

    monocotman

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    Updated photos. The first ones were from the day the flower opened. Now it a few days old and has done the kovachii thing of growing. The flower is about as good as I could have hoped for.
    It’s going to be one hell of a flower when the plant matures.
    AA533CA0-B437-4630-A2BE-EADAF00D453F.jpeg
    644DE70B-48B3-4741-8811-7EAA41FC439C.jpeg
     
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  13. Jan 24, 2020 #13

    KateL

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  14. Jan 24, 2020 #14

    KateL

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  15. Jan 24, 2020 #15

    terryros

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    The tetraploid besseae in this cross adds importantly to shape and substance, but it also can reduce the flower size somewhat compared to a 2N Fritz Schomburg. This is perhaps an example when the size criteria for award points may be overstated. Is size more important than shape and substance?
     
  16. Jan 24, 2020 #16

    paphman

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    A fine example of a winning cross. These are keepers overall but yours appears to be exceptional to me!
     
  17. Jan 24, 2020 #17

    monocotman

    monocotman

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    Thanks. Terry, you’re right, most of the flowers from this cross are on the small size probably due to the double shot of besseae. There is a recently awarded one from this cross with a clonal name of ‘top notch’ (google it) which is 10.1 cm. However the shape and colour is exceptional. This one is a shade over 11cm on the first flower. The cross overall appears to be of a consistently very high quality. Most of the time I think I’d be happier with a slightly smaller flower with great shape,
    David
     
  18. Jan 24, 2020 #18

    KateL

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    Terry, I’ve been trying to figure that out myself. The correct answer in the AOS judging system is of course no, because size is only 10 points whereas flower form is 30 (for Phrags) and substance is another 10, along with 30 for color, plus 20 for other factors. Yet, I seem to think that size is often used (maybe a lot) as a go-to means of comparison to a plant’s parents, other plants in the same grex, or other plants that might be considered comparable. As David points out, however, an exceptionally well-formed flower like this one is always desirable!
     
  19. Jan 25, 2020 #19

    terryros

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    The ‘Top Notch’ cultivar that David mentioned is an Orchids Limited cultivar awarded last summer. In talking to Jason and Jerry Fischer, the discussions with the judges centered on size as the reason that the award was HCC and not something higher. The point scale that Kate describes above doesn’t indicate that size would be the dominant factor. It seems impossible (without fast genetic analysis) to have separate judging standards for diploid and polyploid plants. In many orchid genera, outstanding awarded hybrids have turned out to be natural polyploidy, explaining some of their characteristics. The AOS judging standards seem to be balanced regarding the various aspects of flowers. However, as with anything subjective, a little bias towards one factor (size) as compared to something else (e.g. shape or color) will change the final point score.
     
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  20. Jan 25, 2020 #20

    blondie

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    Stunning just gorgeous
     

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