semi hydro dabblings

Well, I've decided to try a couple things in SH since many of you speak so highly of it. Bought a stash of clear plastic cups, found an acceptable poking device, and will be playing with various media. Started with lava PEBBLES. I know lots of literature says lava ROCKs don't work well, but I found lava pebbles which seem to be about the same size range as Grow In Hydro's HygroStone. I ran a wicking test similar to that described earlier and liked the results. Just put a couple phal keikis in it so far. Since it's only been a couple weeks, no big changes yet. Hope to try slippers in it soon. Will start with some from our personal collection- I see sales issues with LECAs due to added shipping weight and customer unfamiliarity. My parents live in Lexington, so next time I visit them, I'll grab a sack of HygroStone to experiment with.

-Ernie

Good luck, Ernie. Yes, I agree with the added weight & increased mailing expense being a big turn-off for commercial growers. I ship most s/h plants as bareroot as possible now.

I don't think I've seen lava pebbles anywhere. Where did you buy it?

Good luck with SH.....I still play with it a little, but not with slippers. No paph ever did well in it for more than a few months...and even phrags, which I thought would take to it like crazy, hated it. I have 2 phrags left in SH which really seem to love it...they were the only ones. However, I have a phal and a cattleya in it doing very well...I just potted up a Brassia, and I'm willing to experiment some more...but just not with paphs or phrags. Interestingly, I had more success after I stopped following the fertilizing suggestions I was getting...my SH plants get the same amount of fertilizer as their bark grown cousins, no more, ..and plenty of plain water in between. Take care, Eric

Candace said:

I don't think I've seen lava pebbles anywhere. Where did you buy it?

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You save big money, you save big money when you shop... Menards. It's like Home Depot/Lowes, but funner. Rinsed with RO, then mag sulfate/cal nitrate, then RO twice just in case. Didn't want to blame any failure on TDS.

-Ernie

I have been moving all my Phrags to this and they seem to be loving it. The seedlings are in clear cups so I can see the root growth. Even the kovachii X seedlings are seeing many new roots. I have a local source for Hydroton (hydroponic store), so that is what I am using.

Ernie, I took 2 pics of my one and only S/H plant today for another purpose.
This is a Phrag Calurum growing in Hydroton. I did post it some time ago not long after I did it. I'm guessing but I think it was around 12 mnths ago. Might be a help to you.

My Grouville was in it for about 6 months and I thought it was ding well until I noticed rot begining on the leaves. I removed it and found the roots were rotting and the root ball was reduced by half. I switched it back to a traditional medium and its roots have tripled in three months. Its the one I had questions about growing out of the pot. When I unpotted I was very surprised to see the root growth in such a short period of time. I switched to a bark, hydroton, charcol, and coir mix. The coir is moisture retentive and it has been good for my new Hanne as well. Now my Phals on the other hand have taken to semihydro like ducks to water. The root growth has been impressive and the leaf development is great as well. No spikes yet though. I would think if your going to switch the phrags, the seedlings would be better than a mature plant. The roots will develope in the environment from the start, rather than have to adjust.

You save big money, you save big money when you shop... Menards.

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We don't have Menards here. Is there a brand name on the lava pebbles? Could you take a photo of it when you have a second?

My experience echoes Eric M's. I had all my Phrags in S/H for a couple of years, but most started deteriorating. Now I have only about 6 that seem to continue to do well in it. Same with Paphs.

Interesting feedback. Keep it coming. Canda-licious, will try to remember to get a brand name off the lava pebbles tomorrow. I hope it works, it's like $3 for a 50 lb bag and have been using it with medium bark for a couple years now instead of or in addition to sponge rock. If not will keep trying things. I love media tinkering.

-Ernie

There was a landscape supply place here that sold some clay-type pebbles that had the name Rockwell something. I use is in semi-hydro and as a medium for things like Dens and Catts that like a lot of air around the roots and not too much moisture. Maybe LittleFrogFarm Rob remembers the name -- he's the one who introduced me to it.

In my humble opinion, I think the reason phrags fail in the clay pellets after seemingly doing well is the buildup of salts/fertilizer. Even with a flushing , the the clay pebbles I think absorb it , so a "flushing" does not rid the excess salts bulid up. I have friends that have terrible leaf tip burn on their phrags even with reg. flushing .

Gilda said:

In my humble opinion, I think the reason phrags fail in the clay pellets after seemingly doing well is the buildup of salts/fertilizer. Even with a flushing , the the clay pebbles I think absorb it , so a "flushing" does not rid the excess salts bulid up. I have friends that have terrible leaf tip burn on their phrags even with reg. flushing .

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Hmmm. I use rain water and MSU fertilizer. I do have leaf tip burn on many of my Phrags, even now when I'm not doing them in S\H.

SlipperFan said:

Hmmm. I use rain water and MSU fertilizer. I do have leaf tip burn on many of my Phrags, even now when I'm not doing them in S\H.

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We use our tap water and mine get time release fertilizer (gray balls that Carter & Holmes sell) , with a splash of balanced maybe once a month if that much in the summer.

An interesting thought about the buildup, Gilda. Since reading this thread, I have been scratching my head a lot and wondering why folks have problems over time, while I do not (I have paphs that have been repotted for as long as 8 years at this point and they are fine).

In my experimenting, I have found that the absorption/release hysteresis of various sources of LECA varies all over the map, and that can affect mineral buildup, but that's not alone, as allowing the medium to dry out results in a faster buildup, too. I'm sure there are other factors, as well.

Dot, how strong are you mixing up the MSU? I water with it at 100-125 ppm N in RO always, and I am seeing no burning issues, whether in S/H or not.


I'd like to make an editorial comment about Slippertalk and its participants: Unlike pretty much any other forum, most folks here seem to be more focused on delving into-, and really understanding what about their orchid culture works or doesn't, incorporating scientific and logical analyses into the discussion, rather than simply stating anecdotal evidence as fact, which isn't very helpful. Plus, there seems to be a better understanding of the basic fact that what works for one may not for another, due to any number of differences in the specific aspects of their conditions and culture, and a willingness to experiment, rather than taking one person's view and assuming it should work for them.

Too bad there isn't an award for that. it would reside here.

Ray said:

allowing the medium to dry out results in a faster buildup, too.
.

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My thoughts also, Ray...the growers I know with severe leaf tip burn on their phrags only water enough to top off the reservoir, and they do allow them to go almost dry . I think phrags are more sensitive to these conditions than paphs.

Ray said:

Dot, how strong are you mixing up the MSU? I water with it at 100-125 ppm N in RO always, and I am seeing no burning issues, whether in S/H or not.

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Ray, I'm using the rain/RO fertilizer at the same rate as you, with rain water. I don't get leaf tip burn on my Paphs, and not all of my Phrags, either. Just some of them. But it seems like, when it starts, it's impossible to stop. I thought maybe it was a lack of humidity, but I really have no idea.

Pretty soon, I'll be using my well water with the tap water formula. My well water is high in calcium and iron, otherwise, very negligible salts.

Ernie said:

Interesting feedback. Keep it coming. Canda-licious, will try to remember to get a brand name off the lava pebbles tomorrow. I hope it works, it's like $3 for a 50 lb bag and have been using it with medium bark for a couple years now instead of or in addition to sponge rock. If not will keep trying things. I love media tinkering.

-Ernie

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I'll have to look for these lava pebbles as it's getting harder to find good sized sponge rock and sponge rock has got to rough on the lungs. I always rinse it to keep the dust down, but just pouring it out of the bag throws up a lot of dust.

My two cents on s/h: I've had uneven results from its use, but I attribute that more to my own watering regimen, which tends to leave plants a little dryer than average. My Phrag PEC did extremely well in S/H for several years, but now has begun to show leaf tip burn, most likely for the reasons noted above. I always filled the pot to the top before letting it drain, but only watered once a week, which probably allowed the media to dry out too much, thus allowing salt build up.

paphreek said:

...and sponge rock has got to rough on the lungs. I always rinse it to keep the dust down, but just pouring it out of the bag throws up a lot of dust.

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I first put the bag in a bucket (in case the bag leaks), then cut open a small hole in the top of the bag and pour water into it. When nice and wet, the whole bag gets poured through a sieve. No dust. You might try it,
although I guess this isn't practical with larger quantities.

Another trick if you don't want to use the whole bag. Cut a small hole in the corner to pour the spongerock out into a bucket. At the same time, take a sprayer and spray it down as you pour the stuff out. Or cover the bucket with a damp towel and pour under it.


I'm convinced that the reason s/h doesn't work for me is that I don't flush the medium, and yes, I never water frequently enough. I still have some catts in diatomite, and they seem to deal with the buildup better. (I do flush it once or twice a year... ) But no more phrags in s/h for me.... This is why I'm hesitant to recommend s/h to fellow xerophytes.

Candace said:

We don't have Menards here. Is there a brand name on the lava pebbles? Could you take a photo of it when you have a second?

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Brand is "American Countryside". Took some pix yesterday- will post if/when I get a chance. The Phals are doing great. One is spiking and I see new root growth.

-Ernie