True Paph.gratrixianum

A few years back, Eric C. had an article in the OD (Jul/Aug/Sep 2004, v.68 #3) about this species and that all or nearly all of the ones in cultivation under that name didn't match the description (but were probably 'Paph.affine') . I have read an original description as well and was lucky enough to come by this plant a couple years ago. It has now bloomed, and matches the description perfectly. Wide leaves, correct pigmentation on the base of leaves, shorter inflorescence, etc. The ruler in the leaf shot is marked in inches, not cm. I had the 'traditional' gratrixianum growing side-by-side with it and the leaves on the old form were still as narrow as usual, so culture has nothing to do with the width of the leaves.

I was always impressed by Eric's eye for detail and his redefinition of species long in cultivation based on analysis of the original descriptions and specimens. We sorely need another to step up in that respect and correct any other misidentifications we have.

I really like the dorsal on that one.

Thats a nice robust looking plant. I have one with thin leaves, similar flower and labled as ''affine''?

Nice plant and interesting to read opinions and view regarding the gratixianum / affine issue.

Here's a link to the discussion from last year in the taxanomy forum.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22360&highlight=gratixianum

I have a plant labelled gratixianum as well but it's the one with the errect narrow leaves. I prefer sticking to this name, partially because of Kew considering affine to be a synonym for gratrixianum.

Not that the Kew is the holy grail of Orchid nomenclature but for me it provides a foothold and as I don't aspire to be a taxonomist I prefer to use their site as a reference.

I think the assignment of "affine" is hilarious. It means "like" or "similar", and unidentified plants are often labeled as something like " Paphiopedilum species affine gratrixianum", when it looks like it, but you're not sure.

I have a fairly large, narrow-leaved version in an 8.5" S/H pot. Sure would like a definitive idea of what it is.

That is extremely nice!

Ray said:

I think the assignment of "affine" is hilarious. It means "like" or "similar", and unidentified plants are often labeled as something like " Paphiopedilum species affine gratrixianum", when it looks like it, but you're not sure.

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I know. It's like naming a species 'similis', but there are several of those. 'Similar to' WHAT??

I like it, I put your name on a tag in the pot of charlesworthii, put my name on a tag for a division of this gratrixianum. Very sweet and a bit different.

What a gorgeous flower!

Leo, Tennis may have missed your post because he traded a division to me last year. But I'll pass along a piece from mine when it's ready.

My division of this plant is in flower now, i'll post a pic in a few days.

I corresponded with Eric Christenson after he published his article...I had a "true" gratrixianum (from Andy's). I am definitely inclined to agree with him. But if a scientific name is valid, tough you-know-what, its valid. Just look at P. micranthum- it means tiny flower. Most inappropriate species name ever. But too bad...its the valid name. There is no question that traditional "gratrixianum" is a narrow leaved plant, superficially similar to villosum. The plant I had from Andy's looked far more like a complex hybrid, foliage wise. Eric (and Braem, and many others) are/were very familiar with the taxonomic literature....and I think the gratrixianum argument is very convincing.

Thanks for sharing

I do agree that your plant is matched to what was originally described as gratrixianum

The gratrix-like species with more erected-narrow leaves which is found in southern Laos is still waiting for a proper description

Natural habitat of both are also different

The true gratrixianums are found hanging on steep slope beside moisted waterfall

While the narrowed leaves ones are found on plane terrain and sometimes full sun

poozcard said:

While the narrowed leaves ones are found on plane terrain and sometimes full sun

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I have pictures from Averyanov's book showing the narrow leaf version on steep hillsides under forest canopy.

I also have a presentation of his showing a continuous gradient of "gratrixinaum" forms going from Laos to Vietnam (not just 2 distinct species or variants with distinct geographic separation).

Like villosum, and calosum, the concept of gratrxianum appears to be a huge multivariate smeary mess. So what defines "True"?

A beauty, for sure!

As Dot said, a beauty!

I have a P. gratrixianum (Todd B x MC4992) seedling and the leaves on it are narrow and somewhat upright. How long before the leaves will get as wide as they ever will?

I'm sorry, but I think this looks like a hybrid with exul !.

As a newbie, I find myself having to ask, so where does this leave us with the affine/villosum/boxalli/gratixianum/exul ( and any I may have left out) quagmire of confusion? I have just spent the last few hours reading various threads on this, as well as every text in my limited library. If I was confused before, I am very confused now. After joining this forum I suddenly discover that perhaps I should take every label out of my plant pots and throw them away, because they all appear to be wrong!

Cochlopetalum said:

I'm sorry, but I think this looks like a hybrid with exul !.

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Like most of the exules in the other thread!

I think one way to solve this mystery is to self plants which you are pretty sure are gratrixianum and then examine the variation between the off-spring. If forms similar to less certain gratrixianum appear in the progeny then it more likely that you are only looking at intraspecies variation. Applying Occam's Razor, it is then unnecessary to posit a new species when intraspecies variation is sufficient.

Selfing less certain plants would also be a good idea. If you get some plants looking like typical gratrixianum (i.e. like the type specimen) then you have more evidence for it only being variation.

Of course, these experiments could instead produce evidence implying a hybrid continuum between exul, insigne, villosum and gratrixianum...