schlimii and mazurii side by side

[Hugorchids]

I saw some discussions around these two Phrags and since both of mines are blooming I thought I share some pics. The mazurii came from Chucks and that overgrown schlimii from OZ.



The flowers look alike but the mazurii plant is a miniature compared to the schlimii by a wide margin.

Here's close up of the mazurii:


and schlimii:

 

[JeanLux]

Wow, that schlimii is a beautiful monster !!!!

And yes, the flowers of both are quite similar!!

Jean

 

[Hamlet]

I have to agree. What a beautiful monster of a plant! Wow.

 

[SlipperKing]

Based on these two, I wouldn't be able to tell one from the other except for plant size. That may not be a consent either.

 

[Achamore]

Based on these two, I wouldn't be able to tell one from the other except for plant size. That may not be a consent either.

I agree. Very good to see these photos, it certainly gives fodder for the discussion. Great schlimii..!

 

[John M]

They're both wonderful. Of course, the schlimii is impressive not only for it's size and vigour; but, the flower is really nice too. However, even though I tend to be an avid "splitter", I just don't see the justification for separating manzurii from schlimii. I can't help but to ask things like why is Paph. concolor v. longipetalum considered to just be a variety of concolor; but, manzurii is considered to be a separate species and not simply a variety of schlimii?

 

[trdyl]

Thanks for posting!

 

[eggshells]

Incredible clone of schlimii.

They're both wonderful. Of course, the schlimii is impressive not only for it's size and vigour; but, the flower is really nice too. However, even though I tend to be an avid "splitter", I just don't see the justification for separating manzurii from schlimii. I can't help but to ask things like why is Paph. concolor v. longipetalum considered to just be a variety of concolor; but, manzurii is considered to be a separate species and not simply a variety of schlimii?

John, concolor var. longipetalum is considered as a species now. It's name is changed to Paph. josianae.

 

[eteson]

If you cannot distinguish it from a schlimii it is schlimii, maybe a expensive one! No matter what label says because a label does not make a plant to be what it is written on it. IMHO it could be XColombianum.

 

[John M]

Incredible clone of schlimii.



John, concolor var. longipetalum is considered as a species now. It's name is changed to Paph. josianae.

Right. I'd forgotten that. Bad example. So, let's say micranthum. There are a lot of different varieties of micranthum. Many look more different from each other than schlimii and what we're seeing posted as manzurii. I think Eliseo is right. There is a lot of contamination and it's still rare if not impossible to find a pure manzurii. I seem to remember the very first photos we saw of manzurii were of very yellow flowers. Where'd they go?

 

[troy]

Both are excellent blooms!!! Congrats on the blooming!!! Do you grow those outside or greenhouse?

 

[dodidoki]

I agree, shchlimmi is outstanding, but I feel doubt about "manzurii".
Original description: "Sepals yellow-green, 2 cm long, 1.4 to 1.7 cm wide. Petals white, flushed with pale violet, 2.2 to 2.8 cm long, 1.1 to 2 cm wide. Labellum white flushed pale violet, yellow-green at base, with violet markings. 1.8 to 2.4 cm long, 1 to 1.7 cm wide"
You can see pics here:
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/Phrag/ennew13.html
It is a different flower, I think.

 

[dodidoki]

BTW, if you read this article, you can notice, that manzurii is not a compact plant at all, leaves about 30-35 cm long.

 

[eteson]

I cannot understand how a description based only in color was admitted to name a new species...
Didoki you are right manzurii is not a compact plant, but schlimii is also very variable in size, so plant size cannot be used to separate it. (the same as in longifolium).

I do not have a very educated point of view and i am not a taxonomist but... could the true manzurii be the lost schlimii var albiflorum?

http://plantillustrations.org/illustration.php?id_illustration=113453

 

[Linus_Cello]

Could these plants be representative of a clinal variation? (e.g., one is from lower altitude, other from higher?)

Have these schlimii and manzurii been crossed? What's the name? What does it look like?

 

[eteson]

Could these plants be representative of a clinal variation? (e.g., one is from lower altitude, other from higher?)

Have these schlimii and manzurii been crossed? What's the name? What does it look like?

Both are from about the same altitude (about 1600-1800 masl) typical schlimii comes from Central Cordillera in Colombia while the variation comes from Eastern Cordillera.

the man made cross is called Colombianum and it is a very vigorous schlimii you would find it in one of my old posts.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36672

 

[Hien]

I agree, shchlimmi is outstanding, but I feel doubt about "manzurii".
Original description: "Sepals yellow-green, 2 cm long, 1.4 to 1.7 cm wide. Petals white, flushed with pale violet, 2.2 to 2.8 cm long, 1.1 to 2 cm wide. Labellum white flushed pale violet, yellow-green at base, with violet markings. 1.8 to 2.4 cm long, 1 to 1.7 cm wide"
You can see pics here:
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/Phrag/ennew13.html
It is a different flower, I think.

That article seems to narrow to the green type only as manzurii , but does manzurii has to be semi albo viridis (is that the term)? perhaps the one in the photo is neither schlimii mini nor manzurii but a different species

 

[Hien]

BTW, if you read this article, you can notice, that manzurii is not a compact plant at all, leaves about 30-35 cm long.

perhaps the one in the photo is neither schlimii mini nor manzurii but a different species

 

[SlipperKing]

I agree, shchlimmi is outstanding, but I feel doubt about "manzurii".
Original description: "Sepals yellow-green, 2 cm long, 1.4 to 1.7 cm wide. Petals white, flushed with pale violet, 2.2 to 2.8 cm long, 1.1 to 2 cm wide. Labellum white flushed pale violet, yellow-green at base, with violet markings. 1.8 to 2.4 cm long, 1 to 1.7 cm wide"
You can see pics here:
http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/Phrag/ennew13.html
It is a different flower, I think.

Clearly in this descriptive article there are two, maybe three different flowers and they are all compatible with each other. Unless these were from a highly isolated colony and manzurii has a wider color range, one should be looking for a green flower. The manzurii staminode looks nothing like a schlimii staminode either, unless again, these are isolated flowers intentionally inserted into this article to mislead the reader.

Clearly one cannot buy this species with any confidence without a blooming plant in hand!

 

[Happypaphy7]

Can't tell the difference between the flowers really.
But the plant size, is it always the case??
One is much bigger than the other species??