If the plants or flask clear CITES then they would likely pass Lacey as far as the "species" is concerned. But if the flasks have ligit CITES papers and later it turns out the original plants were collected illegally then it becomes a Lacey issue after fact.
Rungsuriyanum
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If the plants or flask clear CITES then they would likely pass Lacey as far as the "species" is concerned. But if the flasks have ligit CITES papers and later it turns out the original plants were collected illegally then it becomes a Lacey issue after fact.
true,but this is not the case...plants wild collected few months ago as canhii and flowered as new species in Thailand....
When stories (true or not) about the possibility of the plants being illegally collected are published it makes it impossible for a buyer to purchase the plants in compliance with the Lacey Act. How can a USA buyer be positive which story is true?
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
We won't be seeing this for a long, long, time.
In a way I kind of wish that a government institution would step in and actually become the source for new plants. Perhaps start with confiscated plants and begin the propagation process from there. If they can provide enough plants to lessen the demand for wild collected plants it seems like and win win situation. And if it is done legitimately with plants that were confiscated from the black market it may also help eliminate some black market dealers too.
Just a thought.
Tyler
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Just a thought.
Tyler
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2
Justin
Well-Known Member
I remember reading about "rescue centers" like this--from what I remember that's how vietnamense first became legal here when customs or USFW "boarded" a group of plants they had confiscated with Antec. Does anyone have an update on this program?
Smuggled Paph plant... cost $50
Government produced Paph plant...cost $5000 (at least).
or
Government produced plant.... $50
Smuggled Paph plant... $5
Either way smuggling will continue and probably increase if the government were producing plants that could help shield smuggled plants. Your idea would definitely make species more available faster* but it would not stop the collection of the wild species.
* unless the government wipes out the entire population by an act of stupidity
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I don't believe the rescue center grew plants collected from Antec. If you want to lose plants you put a government entity in charge of their production.
Antec was the rescue center.
And in reality the few plants they legally produced just made an avenue for illegal plants to surface. From a collectors standpoint that is fine as the species became available.
But from the nursery (Antec) side they lost money trying to "rescue" the plants. By the time they had legal plants in enough quantity to recoup their costs of the rescue program smuggled plants were being sold at a lower price. Those smuggled plants were claimed to be produced from ANTEC's rescued plants..... and that is why the rescue center production never works long term.
Plant Rescue......
Here is info about rescue centers...Plant Rescue Centers USFW
The last paragraph is interesting...
How many plants are seized?
Between 2006 and 2010, the USDA
confiscated 680 plant shipments in
violation of CITES. These shipments
contained a total of 38,400 plants (27,270
orchids, 4,990 Venus flytraps, 3,239 cacti,
894 aloes, 821 euphorbias, 583 amaryllids,
307 cycads, 134 pitcher-plants, and 162
other species), plus an additional 3,933
seeds. Of these 680 shipments; 664
shipments containing 20,169 plants and
3,933 seeds were assigned to PRCs.
The remaining 18,231 plants from 16
shipments perished at the port or were
destroyed. No plants were returned to
the countries of export.
Here is info about rescue centers...Plant Rescue Centers USFW
The last paragraph is interesting...
How many plants are seized?
Between 2006 and 2010, the USDA
confiscated 680 plant shipments in
violation of CITES. These shipments
contained a total of 38,400 plants (27,270
orchids, 4,990 Venus flytraps, 3,239 cacti,
894 aloes, 821 euphorbias, 583 amaryllids,
307 cycads, 134 pitcher-plants, and 162
other species), plus an additional 3,933
seeds. Of these 680 shipments; 664
shipments containing 20,169 plants and
3,933 seeds were assigned to PRCs.
The remaining 18,231 plants from 16
shipments perished at the port or were
destroyed. No plants were returned to
the countries of export.
E
Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
As I recall, the confiscated vietnamense were taken to the "rescue" center (I think the NY Botanical Garden) and offered to be returned to Vietnam. When Vietnam refused them, Antec was contacted to produce flasks from the rescued plants. While the original plants were still considered contraband, all flasks (there may have been some helenae also) were legal. While Antec sold all its plants with full documentation, once they were on the open market, it wasn't long before more viets were available, Antec or not. If a plant was previously legal, than even technically illegal plants were sold openly, like delanatii when it was rediscovered in Vietnam. Also, many helenae were openly sold as "barbigerum v. helenae".
