(Phrag. x Mexipedium) Seed Capsule

[tomkalina]

Many people have tried to cross Mexipedium xerophyticum with every imaginable Phragmipedium species or hybrid and as far as I know, without success. With Phrag. longifolium fma album `Fox Valley Mint' and Mex. xerophyticum in bloom at the same time in our greenhouse, we had to try this one. Sorry for the darkness of the photo, but I think you can see the capsule and the blue tag showing that the capsule has been holding for about 2 1/2 months. Not sure whether there's actually any seed in the capsule and what to expect for a maturity date, but my (non-scientific) theory is that since the longifolium parent is an albino, maybe it's "defenses" against the xerophticum pollen tubes might be lower than normal, and pollination may have actually occured. Will keep you all informed as to progress......

 

[Ray]

That's really cool. I hope it's fertile!

Out of curiosity, why would albinism have any impact on that?

 

[SlipperKing]

What maturity would you expect for longifolium, as far as, harvesting a pod?

 

[Ernie]

Sweet! Would be cool if it takes.

Even if it turns out to be a selfing of long album, a winner.

 

[tomkalina]

Hi Ray,

It's a non-scientific conjecture on my part. Since most albinistic species are poorer growers in general than their normally colored conterparts, it makes me wonder whether they might have weaker immune systems. Assuming the albino long has a weaker immune system (or whatever it's called in plants) I'm hoping there may be less chance of rejection of the xero. pollen tubes as they reach the long fma album ovary. This probably doesn't make sense to the scientific types on the forum, but in my old and twisted mind, it did when I saw the plants in bloom...... we normally harvest our long fma album seed capsules at 100 days. Since xero propagates so well w it's stolons, we don't do selfings or sibbings, so not sure what the maturation time would be for that species. In our experience, Phrag. capsules should be just beginning to split before harvest to achieve the highest lab germination rates, so I guess we'll have to keep a close eye on this one.

 

[Scooby5757]

Awesome Tom! Hey...this means you've been holding out on newer pics of the 'Fox Valley Mint'. oke:

 

[Jorch]

I hope it's fertile! Sure sounds like an interesting cross

 

[tomkalina]

Ty,

Here's a newer pic of `Fox Valley Mint' showing the (x self) seed capsule that eventually resulted in our first crop of seedlings. Notice the white petal, dorsal and synsepal margins of the flower. Under a microscope, the hairs on the staminode that are black on the normally colored longifoliums, were totally devoid of color - almost transparent on this clone.

 

[NYEric]

Frankenstein!!
If it takes remember your fan club here in NYC!

 

[Bolero]

Sounds promising! I hope it works out. I wouldn't mind some seedlings of this one.

 

[smartie2000]

sending you the good luck vibes. I hope we see a new hybrid in future.

 

[SlipperFan]

We'll all keep our fingers crossed.

I've heard that pods that have developed between Phrags and Paphs are really selfings. Could this be possible with Mexipedium, also?

 

[Drorchid]

Hey Tom,
I don't think the albinism trait has any effect on the pollination. I have also tried making Mexipedium/Phragmipedium crosses, and have them actually gotten them to germinate, but all of them after a few months seemed to crash in the lab, so this tells me that Mexipediums are definitely related to Phrags, but that there is some incompatibility issues going on that prevents the seedlings from growing, but I wish you success with your cross!

Robert

 

[Phrag-Plus]

We'll all keep our fingers crossed.

I've heard that pods that have developed between Phrags and Paphs are really selfings. Could this be possible with Mexipedium, also?

I have also tried many crosses with mexipedium and I did harvest few seedpods too (wallisii, longifolium, Mem. dick Clements...etc), I was expected a lot from the one with wallisii to get a mini white long petaled cross. But unfortunately never got anything out of flask neither...


If they were selfing, I'll gues I'll have some offspring?? But never tried to self it....

 

[nikv]

Does anyone know the chromosome count for a Mexipedium? And for the various Phrag species? I wonder whether it would be possible to treat a Mexipedium with colchicine to convert it to 4N. Would that work better in hybridization? Just thinking out loud here.

 

[Brian Monk]

Fingers crossed! Robert - Have you tried to manipulate the media hormone concentration in the crosses that crash? I tend to think that the auxin:cytokinin ration may be manipulable, and possibly the addition og giberellins may have some ability to improve growth immediately post-germination.

 

[PaphMadMan]

For those who have reported getting germination of phrag x mex crosses, which then die in flask... Have you tried chromosome doubling of protocorms in flask? Could be a shorter route than finding or making 4N parents.

 

[tomkalina]

We haven't tried any of the popular methods of chromosome replication, but it would make for an interesting experiment. The problem, at least for us, is that the seedlings grow reasonably well in flask, but seem to damp off within the first 15-20 days out of flask. It seems like there is a certain genetic lethality that presents soon after deflasking. But, we keep trying.................

 

[NYEric]

"History shows, again and again,
how Nature points up the follies of Men" - 'Godzilla' - Blue Oyster Cult

 

[W. Beetus]

The longifolium blooms came out great! If the cross does work though, that will be quite an interesting one to see grown out.