Part of the problem with the AOS is...

[Lanmark]

I wish I were in a better position to help, but I am not very internet or tech savvy. My plate is full, and I'm still trying to recover from this pesky back problem as well.

I have a lot of respect for all the work everyone already contributes to keep our orchid societies alive and well. I do think there is a viable younger crowd which is interested in growing orchids, but it's probably not nearly as large as the over-fifty crowd. Still, if only a few more younger people would step up to the challenge, I think they would find it rewarding.

Lance gave an excellent point too about how great this particular website is when it comes to free advertising for vendors and a plethora of connections and useful information for enthusiasts.

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

With the explosion of technology and free online platforms, content is essentially free these days. Bottom line - nobody wants to buy content anymore, the expectation is everything is free. That is killing the print business - magazines, newspapers, books, you name it.

Societies are another matter. Again, the tendency is towards free content rather than paying. Facebook and Google have capitalized (meaning $$) on this since they have a huge workforce making content at no cost. They collect ad revenue here and there, and this translates into huge profits. The content producers, with few exceptions, get very little in return.

This brings up the interesting question - why bother making any good content? And of course, can you "trust" the content you are getting since anybody can produce it. Quality is crazy variable.

It will be interesting to see how this all pans out over time.

 

[JAB]

Out of curiosity does anyone have the analytics concerning age demographics of AOS membership, or even ST membership? I am turning 40 this year and with a few exceptions am one of the youngest in our society.

I have never been to an AOS meeting (are they worth it?) or any other big organization for that matter. When I visited both the Hilo and Kona orchid societies my better half and I were were the youngest by easily 15 years!!!
I just do not see a lot of interest from the young crowd. Kyushu and others have made some solid points about the generation living in much more cramped quarters, and choosing to spend their income on tech garbage and/or "experiences."

 

[gonewild]

I have never been to an AOS meeting (are they worth it?)

It's worth it if you are old and rich or young and want to make friends with an old rich person.

 

[tomkalina]

Interesting thread. We appear to be one of the lucky (?) few who are still in business today, but the nature of the business has changed dramatically since 1997. Print advertising is virtually non-existent today; it's all online via our websites, and forum targeted. As for the seeming lack of interest among younger growers, I think they are still interested - they just get their information more efficiently via the internet. When I started growing orchids in 1964 (!) the only way to get cultural information was to join the AOS for it's AOS Bulletin and a local society with it's coincident politics. We also tended to collect orchid books - a lot of them - and they were expensive. Nowadays, the information we find is not only better and more accurate, it's free for the most part.

 

[pontupo]

I wonder to what extent this is a generational pattern vs it being an age pattern. Put another way, were orchid societies ever filled with a lot of young people?

The hobby, because of the comparatively high costs and the potentially high time demands is something that's going to appeal to people with a lot of leisure time and a certain amount of disposable income. The general life pattern of working longer hours, starting a family, buying a house, etc during the first couple decades of adulthood seems like it would leave little time for orchid growing.

It's certain that there are big changes in the way that information / content is produced and distributed. It's also certain that there are generation changes in interests and values. However, given that there are no even remotely comprehensive figures on the size of the hobby orchid market (not the disposable orchid commercial market), it may not be safe to assume that the hobby is declining in popularity. Orchid societies in the classical vein are declining, yes, but orchid forums are exploding in popularity (relative to nonexistence just a few short years ago). Likewise vendors using a classical sales model may see declines in sales, but there may be other vendors selling largely or exclusively online that are not seeing declines.

All of this is to say that I agree that the AOS must evolve or die. The times have changed and it must change with them. However, I don't necessarily think a conclusion that there's a general decline in interest in orchids or horticulture in younger generations is warranted.


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[SlipperFan]

It's worth it if you are old and rich or young and want to make friends with an old rich person.

I must be missing something. I've met a lot of AOS members, being one myself. I don't see a lot of wealth, unless it is in orchid knowledge.

 

[JAB]

Lance,
Info wise do you find the AOS meetings subpar? I get the general feeling from most it is strictly a networking type of thing.

Good insight Tom. Good point about the AOS being the sole source of info for decades!

Dot,
I think in general folks who can afford orchids (or a hobby like orchids) have more money then not. Now that is all relative, but the general point is this is mostly a hobby for upper middle class (does that exist anymore??) folks.
I think in general it is getting tougher to "see" who has money and who does not in our society. Just read a study that said 60 million some Americans do not have enough money saved to survive a month without income. Not to say they ain't buying the latest roth cross....

 

[gonewild]

I must be missing something. I've met a lot of AOS members, being one myself. I don't see a lot of wealth, unless it is in orchid knowledge.

Referring to attending the AOS official meetings that are "society" affairs. Not AOS members at large. Think the officers that spend a fortune on events based in their home areas that 99% of the AOS membership could never be able to attend because of travel and expense. And when a unconnected member shows up they are ignored.

 

[gonewild]

Lance,
Info wise do you find the AOS meetings subpar? I get the general feeling from most it is strictly a networking type of thing.

I've not been to a meeting in over 30 years! I dont think it is even about networking it's about a social event to rub elbows. At one time the magazine was a fantastic source of info, basically the only source unless you had friends in high places. The AOS has changed from what it was 30 years ago and it has not gotten better.
Don't get me wrong the orchid hobby needs the AOS, not to attract new members but rather to administer awards and promote orchids as being something of monetary worth and status symbol. Every serious orchid collector should belong to the AOS just to support and help continue the romance of orchids.

 

[JAB]

Thank you Lance for your insight. I have been skeptical about the AOS and its agenda since joining years ago. Everything about it seems political. I know the fall meeting is in LA this year but not sure if I can afford to go, and even if so if it is worth it.

 

[tnyr5]

The AOS is certainly not without its problems, but, if you would like to see the wild-west craziness that the orchid hobby would be without it, go have a look at the reef aquarium hobby some time, where the same $50 ocean-cultured coral (one of hundreds of identical cultured pieces) is cut up into 25 pieces and given 25 different designer names by 25 different vendors, all of whom are selling 1/4in pieces of it for $1000 each. This is not the equivalent of a high-priced awarded orchid, it's more like pretending any old orchid you have sitting on your bench is awarded and trying to dump it off on some unsuspecting rube.
I am not a guy with a lot of money; when I got back into orchids after leaving the reef hobby (partly because of the meth cooking neighbors killing it, but also partly because I ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT STAND the kind of people that were gravitating to the hobby), I was amazed at how dirt cheap they are. And the reason for that is because we have a flawed ( we could argue to what degree, but I digress...) but still workable system of checks and balances to keep the crazy largely at bay.

 

[troy]

Jab if you went, most likely, you would be ignored 'who is this guy' treatment

 

[Linus_Cello]

The AOS is certainly not without its problems, but, if you would like to see the wild-west craziness that the orchid hobby would be without it, go have a look at the reef aquarium hobby some time, where the same $50 ocean-cultured coral (one of hundreds of identical cultured pieces) is cut up into 25 pieces and given 25 different designer names by 25 different vendors, all of whom are selling 1/4in pieces of it for $1000 each. This is not the equivalent of a high-priced awarded orchid, it's more like pretending any old orchid you have sitting on your bench is awarded and trying to dump it off on some unsuspecting rube.
I am not a guy with a lot of money; when I got back into orchids after leaving the reef hobby (partly because of the meth cooking neighbors killing it, but also partly because I ABSOLUTELY COULD NOT STAND the kind of people that were gravitating to the hobby), I was amazed at how dirt cheap they are. And the reason for that is because we have a flawed ( we could argue to what degree, but I digress...) but still workable system of checks and balances to keep the crazy largely at bay.

Interesting. I don't do marine since I'm annoyed with "salt creep" and was spoiled growing up volunteering at the NeAq where salt water came out of spigot (after having to make salt water, I lost interest, though I have a soft spot for tridacnas and anenomes).

But I've seen so many Live Fish Stores disappear. The only ones that stick around do extensive marine; the margins are so tight with fresh water, and Pet Smart/PetCo have filled up that niche. But I think the aquarium hobby is fast going downhill like orchids because (1) people are more mobile, only living in one place for a couple of years before moving, (2) people are moving in to smaller homes/apartments, so no space for orchids/aquariums, (3) people are interested in "experiences" such as travel and eating out (so discretionary income goes there), and (4) some work requires more travel, so less time to be at home to take care of orchids/aquariums.

 

[Happypaphy7]

It's worth it if you are old and rich or young and want to make friends with an old rich person.

Hahaha funny!

I have no idea about this topic, but aren't a lot of orchid people MD and DDS?
Not saying all doctors are equally wealthy. lol

 

[Happypaphy7]

Good points.
Regarding age group, I think the answer is yes.

I've only been to just a handful of societies, and all were with old people for the most part. But then many of them have been society members for decades, so yes, at some point, the meetings were full of young(er) people.
May not be teenagers and those in their 20s, but still much younger than the average age group I see now.

I think life is just too busy for many people, and especially younger people who are just establishing everything in life, like careers and family ( I mean even family comes second, so why plant hobby? lol).

Linus had great points regarding this.

Busy people can still grow one or a few orchids, the whole hobby can sometimes seem too much. Speakers bring their plants to sell, orchid show throw a full spectrum of different vendors, and of course you want to try different things but the reality doesn't allow this luxury of time and effort to take care of plants.
At least for some people.

I wonder to what extent this is a generational pattern vs it being an age pattern. Put another way, were orchid societies ever filled with a lot of young people?

The hobby, because of the comparatively high costs and the potentially high time demands is something that's going to appeal to people with a lot of leisure time and a certain amount of disposable income. The general life pattern of working longer hours, starting a family, buying a house, etc during the first couple decades of adulthood seems like it would leave little time for orchid growing.

It's certain that there are big changes in the way that information / content is produced and distributed. It's also certain that there are generation changes in interests and values. However, given that there are no even remotely comprehensive figures on the size of the hobby orchid market (not the disposable orchid commercial market), it may not be safe to assume that the hobby is declining in popularity. Orchid societies in the classical vein are declining, yes, but orchid forums are exploding in popularity (relative to nonexistence just a few short years ago). Likewise vendors using a classical sales model may see declines in sales, but there may be other vendors selling largely or exclusively online that are not seeing declines.

All of this is to say that I agree that the AOS must evolve or die. The times have changed and it must change with them. However, I don't necessarily think a conclusion that there's a general decline in interest in orchids or horticulture in younger generations is warranted.


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[JAB]

Kinda what I was thinking Troy.
Back in the day I was a member of the IHS (International Herpetological Society) and went to a number of their meetings. Was treated much the same way.

 

[gonewild]

But I've seen so many Live Fish Stores disappear. The only ones that stick around do extensive marine; the margins are so tight with fresh water, and Pet Smart/PetCo have filled up that niche. But I think the aquarium hobby is fast going downhill like orchids because (1) people are more mobile, only living in one place for a couple of years before moving, (2) people are moving in to smaller homes/apartments, so no space for orchids/aquariums, (3) people are interested in "experiences" such as travel and eating out (so discretionary income goes there), and (4) some work requires more travel, so less time to be at home to take care of orchids/aquariums.

There is another factor that has not been mentioned about why younger people are not being interested in having collections of live plants or fish.

Over the last 15 to 20 years there has been a campaign by many conservation groups to demonize the collecting and keeping of plants and animals. As part of their long term plan to eliminate collecting species from the wild these groups have promoted "educational propaganda" programs which teach young persons that buying orchid plants or buying tropical fish and keeping them as a hobby is a direct support of environmental destruction. There has been a "guilt complex" created about orchids and fish that diverts people from pursuing the hobbies.

It's not the cost, people spend more playing video games than the cost to buy orchids or to have a couple aquariums.

This is not by accident it is by plan. And now the final part of the time frame of the plan is being reached.

Your observation of seeing so many Live fish stores disappear is an example of the goal of the plan. Ten years ago there were about 40 licensed fish exporters in Iquitos Peru. Today there are maybe 3 or 4 and they don't have enough demand to stay in business and have resorted to narco trafficing, after all that is the modern hobby for the youth.

:sob:

 

[JAB]

Lance
Solid point!
I have heard recent news reports that even the blackmarket cannabis growers south of the border are starting to farm poppies because the legal market here in the US has undercut their profits, so they are resorting to opium production in lieu of cannabis production. Like Lance said opiates seem to be the new big thing with Americans of all ages! Sad.

 

[gonewild]

Lance
Solid point!
I have heard recent news reports that even the blackmarket cannabis growers south of the border are starting to farm poppies because the legal market here in the US has undercut their profits, so they are resorting to opium production in lieu of cannabis production. Like Lance said opiates seem to be the new big thing with Americans of all ages! Sad.

Poppies are starting to replace coca in the north of Peru now also. It's the younger farmers making the change. So the youth are taking the world in different directions. Better keep the young people out of the AOS!! :rollhappy: