paphiopedilum x siamensis

[Hakone]

in bud

 

[SlipperKing]

Refresh my memory Hakone, this is a natural hybrid argus and what?

 

[biothanasis]

It looks cool and promising!!!

 

[Roy]

appletonianum x callosum

 

[biothanasis]

Tx for the info Roy...

 

[Hakone]

 

[SlipperKing]

I don't know Hakone, It looks like it's straight from the appletonianum group of plants.

 

[goldenrose]

my thought too, don't see any callosum. It's quite nice at this point BUT if you wanted the other.....

 

[Hakone]

I don't know Hakone, It looks like it's straight from the appletonianum group of plants.

Hallo Slipperking,
please see the staminodium

 

[SlipperKing]

Hakone,
Here is the images of appletonianum from Cribb's second edition. Not the best pictures but I think you will be able to tell that your plant falls within the range of the species.
Pandora Sellars painting:

Flower parts:

staminode:

 

[john mickel]

Maybe an alba - because of all the callosum color being gone

 

[goldenrose]

That stam sure is interesting!

 

[PaphMadMan]

Paph appletonianum tends to have a very strong influence on hybrids and I've seen the identity of hybrids questioned before. And if this is the natural hybrid x siamense, then it covers all the naturally occuring intergrades between the 2 species and could be an F2 (or 3 or ...) or more than half appletonianum and still be correctly identified even if it doesn't resemble callosum at all.

 

[JeanLux]

here a plant that I got as paph xsiamense in 2007! looks a lot like Hakone's flower! Jean

 

[labskaus]

I'm reserving any opinion on Hakones flower until it's fully open, but Jean's clearly shows callosum influence in the dorsal.

I've seen so many x siamenses in the last couple of years both at shows and on sales lists, that I wonder if this hybrid is terribly common in nature (and thus there are plenty of collected plants being offered) or if in fact these plants are the man-made equivalent, Paph. Siamense?

If it's natural, it's collector's item at best. Man-made, it's an applicant for the "nonsense cross of the year" award.

Cheers, Carsten

 

[SlipperKing]

Interesting thoughts Carsten

 

[labskaus]

I agree with Hakone in so far that the staminodium of his flower is quite deeply notched and I can see why he sees callosum influence there. But I have to agree with Rick as well, the staminode in the appletonianum group is so variable, it is hard to base an identification solely on this feature. From what I can see in his pic so far, Hakones flower is very heavy on the appletonianum side, at least.
I googled a bit and found a few pics of "x siamense". They show some variation but in most cases the callosum influence is visible, and that's the way I remember the x siamenses I've seen at shows.
Also, in addition to my previous comment, some comments to those pics on vendor sites indicate that the plants offered are seed grown, and that makes them Siamense not x siamense. Which is good.
Still, x siamense would be something for the treasure hunter and Siamense for the trash box, in my opinion.

Cheers, Carsten

 

[goldenrose]

Thanks for the input Carsten - interesting! More history lessons!