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Paphiopedilum spicerianum ‘Hercules’

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DrLeslieEe

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E324F2D4-A880-4513-A907-196B708BCB43.jpeg 0A8C0290-1236-4547-A3FB-7C415BD17824.png So here is the spicerianum that refused to bloom for over 2 seasons that I stuck in the cold section. It immediately sent up a spike and unveiled the bloom within a month. It’s very stout and round, almost looking huskier than most and with a wide flat dorsal sepal. Those qualities remind me of Hercules. So I will call this little guy by that cultivar. It also represents the Herculean task it took me to rebloom it lol. Similar in shape to the ‘Tustin’ AM/AOS. In addition, the staminode structure and coloration is in line with a spicerianum identity as some hybrids like Bruno looks similar except in their deeply superior cleft on staminoidal shield. The staminode shield on Hercules is quite striking with the ‘green spider’ in the center, flanked by the deep magenta peripheral to it, and white marginal picotee.

NS 8 cm x 7 cm
DS 6 cm x 5 cm
P 2.2 x 4 cm

BC444454-06FA-4F15-B852-19EEDF120912.jpeg

A4A66B42-4C1D-41EB-BC45-3C3564EC62E6.jpeg C831D056-B35E-4FAE-BC9D-E072EB13B77D.jpeg E324F2D4-A880-4513-A907-196B708BCB43.jpeg
 

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DrLeslieEe

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May I reach out to the experts out there like Tom, Olaf and Braeme to confirm if this is a true and valid spicerianum based on staminode etc? I would be interested to know their opinions.
 

Guldal

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Love it!

Btw. Braem isn't here anymore - he left in anger, even before I joined the forum!
 

DrLeslieEe

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Unfortunately the plant did not get an award from AOS this past weekend due to reasons beyond my understanding even after it was confirmed by Harold Koopowitz as a true species. There was doubt and that it could be a hybrid. The lesson from this is that we judges are not taxonomists and should relegate this to the professionals. It could have been awarded and sent to the species identification task force (SITF). That is the right and logical way to handle this conundrum. Lesson learnt.

Here are the pics:
893C88F6-A143-4B98-89B6-98A1C619E230.jpeg C5144A6E-A154-4413-9B70-80D5F36534C6.jpeg 3BB3F415-8B6F-46D5-A076-ABF59A496558.jpeg taken at judging. In many people’s eyes it is one of the best spicerianum seen to date. That is probably why it was passed. It was too good to be a species even though the plant was selected from over 100 siblings from In-Charm breeding.
 

Guldal

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It seems to be the season for transcontinental spicerianum suffering:

20200113_143416.jpg

I just took my own dearly beloved (see my recent post for more photos) to be judged at the last gathering of our orchid society. In some way a bit of a distant cousin to Hercules - and in my (in this case not so) humble opinion also among the best (the brown spot on the dorsal wasn't of course not there then!).

Almost the same fate befell my plant as yours, Leslie, although, the judges at least did not question its species status (which would also have been something of a faux pas, as both parents had been awarded a BM by the stern judges of the German Orchid Society, DOG).

But apart from that, they didn't care a iota about my plant - they disliked the form of the flower, they rated it low in colour (sic!) and size (sic) with its NS of 7 cm and its DS of 6 cm.

I dont know, if it's any consolation to you to know, that you have a fellow sufferer?

Most kind regards,
Jens

Ps. I tried to pm you about this, but couldn't. I hope, I haven't said or done anything to be blocked on purpose?
 
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DrLeslieEe

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Dear Jens, I have not blocked you at all. Not sure why it doesn’t go through. Please know I truly value your camaraderie.

Your flower is adorable and nicely shaped with great colour, size and stance. This is the only species I know that bigger is not better. But alas, the previous contamination of Bruno genes have ruin the true value of improving this species. I’m sorry you had to go through similar frustrations as me. Another day then. Onwards my brave warrior!
 

BrucherT

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It seems to be the season for transcontinental spicerianum suffering:

View attachment 17677

I just took my own dearly beloved (see my recent post for more photos) to be judged at the last gathering of our orchid society. In some way a bit of a distant cousin to Hercules - and in my (in this case not so) humble opinion also among the best (the brown spot on the dorsal wasn't of course not there then!).

Almost the same fate befell my plant as yours, Leslie, although, the judges at least did not question its species status (which would also have been something of a faux pas, as both parents had been awarded a BM by the stern judges of the German Orchid Society, DOG).

But apart from that, they didn't care a iota about my plant - they disliked the form of the flower, they rated it low in colour (sic!) and size (sic) with its NS of 7 cm and its DS of 6 cm.

I dont know, if it's any consolation to you to know, that you have a fellow sufferer?

Most kind regards,
Jens

Ps. I tried to pm you about this, but couldn't. I hope, I haven't said or done anything to be blocked on purpose?
A $10 DNA sequence analysis would solve these issues...I remain surprised that it hasn’t caught on among orchids.
 

DrLeslieEe

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A $10 DNA sequence analysis would solve these issues...I remain surprised that it hasn’t caught on among orchids.
Where would this place be? Share a link and I will submit for DNA test. By the way, the dorsal did curl like the species in the end lol
 

BrucherT

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I’m involved in the Mycoflora Project, which seeks to straighten out mushroom ID through DNA sequence analysis. Individuals and clubs negotiate a number of samples to test; typically its 50 samples for $500. That’s where I get the $10 figure. I don’t know why orchid clubs wouldn’t do the same? Though orchid ID exponentially less inscrutable than mushroom ID.
 

DrLeslieEe

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Where is this test done and do they have a baseline for orchid species?
 

DrLeslieEe

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Just an update on the folded turret dorsal after 3 weeks. The flat dorsal was only for 8-10 days, after which it returned to ‘normal’ state.

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BrucherT

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THAT is a spicerianum! WOOF! Which you always knew.
The tests are done at uni labs. That’s the thing: I don’t know that there is an orchid baseline, I don’t know at all where orchids are with regard to sequencing. I never hear about it.
 

DrLeslieEe

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Yes, that dorsal can confuse many... Hercules just has a big head like Jen's flower.
The baseline DNA sequence might be at Dr. Chase's database. I'll see if I can track him down in WOC Taiwan.
 

BrucherT

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That may be the difference...mushroom culture (the community of mushroom people) by and large makes all information available to everybody. That’s the ethos. Compared to orchids, mushrooms are a million times more challenging to identify and learn and DNA sequencing has exploded the historical concepts of diversity, it’s pure craziness. If orchidists did the same, a lost tag would never be more than an annoyance.
 
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