Paphiopedilum spicerianum ‘Hercules’

Discussion in 'Paphiopedilum' started by DrLeslieEe, Dec 25, 2019.

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  1. Dec 25, 2019 #1

    DrLeslieEe

    DrLeslieEe

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    E324F2D4-A880-4513-A907-196B708BCB43.jpeg 0A8C0290-1236-4547-A3FB-7C415BD17824.png So here is the spicerianum that refused to bloom for over 2 seasons that I stuck in the cold section. It immediately sent up a spike and unveiled the bloom within a month. It’s very stout and round, almost looking huskier than most and with a wide flat dorsal sepal. Those qualities remind me of Hercules. So I will call this little guy by that cultivar. It also represents the Herculean task it took me to rebloom it lol. Similar in shape to the ‘Tustin’ AM/AOS. In addition, the staminode structure and coloration is in line with a spicerianum identity as some hybrids like Bruno looks similar except in their deeply superior cleft on staminoidal shield. The staminode shield on Hercules is quite striking with the ‘green spider’ in the center, flanked by the deep magenta peripheral to it, and white marginal picotee.

    NS 8 cm x 7 cm
    DS 6 cm x 5 cm
    P 2.2 x 4 cm

    BC444454-06FA-4F15-B852-19EEDF120912.jpeg

    A4A66B42-4C1D-41EB-BC45-3C3564EC62E6.jpeg C831D056-B35E-4FAE-BC9D-E072EB13B77D.jpeg E324F2D4-A880-4513-A907-196B708BCB43.jpeg
     

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  2. Dec 25, 2019 #2

    Don I

    Don I

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    Beauty, I don't know why, but I kill these things left and right.
    Don
     
  3. Dec 25, 2019 #3

    blondie

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    A very good bloom.
     
  4. Dec 26, 2019 #4

    DrLeslieEe

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    Thanks all! I think he’s adorable lol

    The staminode design is just an art from nature. The green spider logo is a trademark of this species.

    Don, this species need gentle air blowing over it constantly.

    8B98195F-0496-4B34-8141-C4B074A75175.jpeg 0966592A-0C22-472C-93AE-10449CCD237D.jpeg 910D9ACD-C55C-48BA-9D68-06A8B9E2953C.jpeg 35A15693-7118-4B15-9F3A-7E8786A6AA48.jpeg 227D6576-7671-47BD-8B3A-500EF91F30B0.jpeg
     
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  5. Dec 26, 2019 #5

    DrLeslieEe

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    May I reach out to the experts out there like Tom, Olaf and Braeme to confirm if this is a true and valid spicerianum based on staminode etc? I would be interested to know their opinions.
     
  6. Dec 28, 2019 #6

    Guldal

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    Love it!

    Btw. Braem isn't here anymore - he left in anger, even before I joined the forum!
     
  7. Dec 30, 2019 #7

    NYEric

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    Nice. Very wide dorsal! Thanks for sharing.
     
  8. Jan 6, 2020 #8

    DrLeslieEe

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    Unfortunately the plant did not get an award from AOS this past weekend due to reasons beyond my understanding even after it was confirmed by Harold Koopowitz as a true species. There was doubt and that it could be a hybrid. The lesson from this is that we judges are not taxonomists and should relegate this to the professionals. It could have been awarded and sent to the species identification task force (SITF). That is the right and logical way to handle this conundrum. Lesson learnt.

    Here are the pics:
    893C88F6-A143-4B98-89B6-98A1C619E230.jpeg C5144A6E-A154-4413-9B70-80D5F36534C6.jpeg 3BB3F415-8B6F-46D5-A076-ABF59A496558.jpeg taken at judging. In many people’s eyes it is one of the best spicerianum seen to date. That is probably why it was passed. It was too good to be a species even though the plant was selected from over 100 siblings from In-Charm breeding.
     
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  9. Jan 13, 2020 #9

    Guldal

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    It seems to be the season for transcontinental spicerianum suffering:

    20200113_143416.jpg

    I just took my own dearly beloved (see my recent post for more photos) to be judged at the last gathering of our orchid society. In some way a bit of a distant cousin to Hercules - and in my (in this case not so) humble opinion also among the best (the brown spot on the dorsal wasn't of course not there then!).

    Almost the same fate befell my plant as yours, Leslie, although, the judges at least did not question its species status (which would also have been something of a faux pas, as both parents had been awarded a BM by the stern judges of the German Orchid Society, DOG).

    But apart from that, they didn't care a iota about my plant - they disliked the form of the flower, they rated it low in colour (sic!) and size (sic) with its NS of 7 cm and its DS of 6 cm.

    I dont know, if it's any consolation to you to know, that you have a fellow sufferer?

    Most kind regards,
    Jens

    Ps. I tried to pm you about this, but couldn't. I hope, I haven't said or done anything to be blocked on purpose?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  10. Jan 14, 2020 #10

    DrLeslieEe

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    Dear Jens, I have not blocked you at all. Not sure why it doesn’t go through. Please know I truly value your camaraderie.

    Your flower is adorable and nicely shaped with great colour, size and stance. This is the only species I know that bigger is not better. But alas, the previous contamination of Bruno genes have ruin the true value of improving this species. I’m sorry you had to go through similar frustrations as me. Another day then. Onwards my brave warrior!
     
  11. Jan 14, 2020 #11

    BrucherT

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    A $10 DNA sequence analysis would solve these issues...I remain surprised that it hasn’t caught on among orchids.
     
  12. Jan 14, 2020 #12

    DrLeslieEe

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    Where would this place be? Share a link and I will submit for DNA test. By the way, the dorsal did curl like the species in the end lol
     
  13. Jan 15, 2020 #13

    BrucherT

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    I’m involved in the Mycoflora Project, which seeks to straighten out mushroom ID through DNA sequence analysis. Individuals and clubs negotiate a number of samples to test; typically its 50 samples for $500. That’s where I get the $10 figure. I don’t know why orchid clubs wouldn’t do the same? Though orchid ID exponentially less inscrutable than mushroom ID.
     
  14. Jan 16, 2020 #14

    DrLeslieEe

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    Where is this test done and do they have a baseline for orchid species?
     
  15. Jan 16, 2020 #15

    DrLeslieEe

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    Just an update on the folded turret dorsal after 3 weeks. The flat dorsal was only for 8-10 days, after which it returned to ‘normal’ state.

    079A34A5-16FE-42D7-BDC9-2E05FF73069A.jpeg 18AB5C5E-6E37-4EA2-B4AB-74AC7F32B643.jpeg D72D7CED-A688-4FE4-AD44-09437040A3E4.jpeg 90102B9D-45AB-4AEF-88A2-E9D2D3260A2B.jpeg
     
  16. Jan 16, 2020 #16

    BrucherT

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    THAT is a spicerianum! WOOF! Which you always knew.
    The tests are done at uni labs. That’s the thing: I don’t know that there is an orchid baseline, I don’t know at all where orchids are with regard to sequencing. I never hear about it.
     
  17. Jan 16, 2020 #17

    BrucherT

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    That dorsal just makes it.
     
  18. Jan 16, 2020 #18

    DrLeslieEe

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    Yes, that dorsal can confuse many... Hercules just has a big head like Jen's flower.
    The baseline DNA sequence might be at Dr. Chase's database. I'll see if I can track him down in WOC Taiwan.
     
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  19. Jan 17, 2020 #19

    BrucherT

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    That may be the difference...mushroom culture (the community of mushroom people) by and large makes all information available to everybody. That’s the ethos. Compared to orchids, mushrooms are a million times more challenging to identify and learn and DNA sequencing has exploded the historical concepts of diversity, it’s pure craziness. If orchidists did the same, a lost tag would never be more than an annoyance.
     
  20. Jan 18, 2020 #20

    cnycharles

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