Paph sanderianum petal length

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spujr

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Hi

I realize the petal length on paph sanderianum is largely genetically influenced, but there's a environmental part as well. Anyone know of tips to increase the length besides high humidity?

Someone suggested the owner of Zephyr orchids might know because he has shown many with exceptional length. I sent him a message via his website but not sure if he is still active.

I have this one blooming now. Nothing impressive, but I'm happy nevertheless. I took it out of the growth chamber 1 day for show and tell and the petal tips dried up. I think I can bloom it better next time.
 

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DrLeslieEe

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Nicely flowered! You grow indoor in US?

John of Zephyr Orchids is still active. Good friend of mine and fellow AOS judge. Hopefully he gets the message.

As from my previous convos with him and others who flowered these including Sam Tsui, besides high buoyant humidity (gentle moving humid air), the petal tips should not touch the ground. Apparently, it is a trigger to stop petal elongation as the potential pollination vector (aka insects) can climb up at that point. This saves energy to the plant. In theory anyways lol.
 

eds

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This saves energy to the plant.

What is the mechanism for petal extension? I always assumed the petal spread and extension was similar to that of flowering bulbs and simply involved the expansion of cells grown well in advance due to the speed of extension.

If it is this what happens, then there would be relatively minimal energy expenditure - just the transport of water into the cells.

I've not flowered any sanderianum yet (killed a couple of seedlings though!) but always follow the advice on not letting petal tips touch anything on the multiflorals I have flowered.
 

DrLeslieEe

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What is the mechanism for petal extension? I always assumed the petal spread and extension was similar to that of flowering bulbs and simply involved the expansion of cells grown well in advance due to the speed of extension.

If it is this what happens, then there would be relatively minimal energy expenditure - just the transport of water into the cells.

I've not flowered any sanderianum yet (killed a couple of seedlings though!) but always follow the advice on not letting petal tips touch anything on the multiflorals I have flowered.
I’m not particular sure of the method of elongation, but seems like expansion of cells not only with water but also expensive sugars to build cellular structures and enzymes. And on 6 rapidly growing petals on 3 flowers too?
 

emydura

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I haven't flowered sanderianum myself, so I cannot speak from experience. But I am sure I have read on this forum that it helps if you regularly mist the petals while they are developing. It also probably helps if you leave it in the humid greenhouse while the petals are still growing. :)
 

eds

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Sugars and water aren't very costly for most plants (though a bit more so for epiphytic plants like most orchids) compared to those requiring cellular growth and the generation of proteins and other complex molecules.

Bulbs such as snowdrops, daffodils etc effectively do all the cellular growth in the spring/summer after flowering and what we see in spring the next year is lots of small cells being pumped full of water to make them larger. Other than the energy to push water against a concentration gradient, it has almost no cost to the plant which is why they can spring up so rapidly and in such cold periods.

I assume it is the same for the extension of petals here and little or no cellular growth is actually occurring - I don't know if anyone has studied this mechanism though?

But any organism will always save small amounts of energy if it doesn't need to of course.
 

spujr

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Nicely flowered! You grow indoor in US?

John of Zephyr Orchids is still active. Good friend of mine and fellow AOS judge. Hopefully he gets the message.

As from my previous convos with him and others who flowered these including Sam Tsui, besides high buoyant humidity (gentle moving humid air), the petal tips should not touch the ground. Apparently, it is a trigger to stop petal elongation as the potential pollination vector (aka insects) can climb up at that point. This saves energy to the plant. In theory anyways lol.
Thanks! Yeah I hope to hear from him but understand with the holidays there are more important matters to attend too.

Yes, I grow all under lights now.

Yeah, I heard that theory about avoiding the petals from touching the ground too. I forgot from where but taking to Dave from Paph Paradise, he didn't think it is true. We were wondering if the petals are enclosed in a container if some sort.

Next time I'll be a little more aggressive with the misting and will maybe put it right next to the humidifier.

I wonder if keeping the petals in the dark would trigger elongated cell division like how leaves become elongated when exposed to lack of light.

I agree with Ed about the energy costs.

Just wished I had more sands to experiment with! 😄
 

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