Paph Lake Shinsei vs Wossner Vollmond

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Jorch

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After looking at L I Jane's wonderful Lake Shinsei, a big question mark appeared in front of me about the name of her plant, and my plant.

Her plant is named Lake Shinsei which is armeniacum x conco-bellatulum
My plant is Wossner Vollmond which is armeniacum x wenshanense

and it seems like conco-bellatulum is no longer a valid species name and is replaced by wenshanense.. so in essence, our plants should have the same name :confused: or is conco-bellatulum still recognized as a different species than wenshanense? I am so confused.. any experts out there can shed some light on the "right name"? I'd greatly appreciate it!
 

Rick Barry

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Jorch said:
Her plant is named Lake Shinsei which is armeniacum x conco-bellatulum
My plant is Wossner Vollmond which is armeniacum x wenshanense
OrchidWiz shows Wossner Vollmond as armeniacum x niveum. However, the confusion remains, since armeniacum x wenshanense is listed as Hiroki Tanaka and armeniacum x Conco-bellatulum as Lake Shinsei. Perhaps the registrar is distinguishing between the species and the artificial hybrid, but that doesn't seem to be the case with P. fanaticum/Fanaticum. It should be interesting to see how they deal with their progeny in the future.

Regards,
Rick
 
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Ernie

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As I understand it, Paphiopedilum x wenshanense is Mom Nature's version of Conco-bellatulum. That is, x wenshanense is a natural hybrid between concolor and bellatulum whereas Conco-bellatulum is still the proper name if a hybridizer were to take a toothpick to these species in "captivity". The taxon x conco-bellatulum was never properly established for the wild version, so the 'recent' name x wenshanense is valid AS IS Conco-bellatulum. Just depends on the origin of the parents. Furthermore, a cross of (Paph x wenshanense X Paph x wenshanense) gives X wenshanense not Conco-bellatulum. Sort of like (Cattleya aurantiaca X C skinneri) = C. x guatemalense in nature, C. Guatemalense in the lab; someone just used the same names for both versions here. Will try to find some original literature if I find the time...

Also, from what I've seen, folks growing some other plant groups still use X and x to denote man-made and natural hybirds, respectively, whereas orchid folks have dropped the big X before man-made hybrid names.

Would love some sound clarification from the botanically-trained.

-Ernie
 

NYEric

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I know there was the hybrid conco-bellatulum, [which should have been "C"] and that the species conco-bellatulum was renamed wenshanense so I think Ernie is correct.
 

slippertalker

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The problem with Paph wenshanense/conco-bellatulum is that they were originally considered identical, and both the species and the hybrid were used in crosses as Paph conco-bellatulum. Fairly recently Paph wenshanense was determined to be unique from the hybrid of Paph Conco-bellatulum. In the meantime, we have no way of knowing which plants were used in breeding.

This is not an isolated case of redefinition, and the RHS plant registration system has no way of fixing the problem. Another problem is misidentified parents being used in crosses, but that's another story.
 
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Ernie

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Hmmm, we certainly need to see the original literature then... Anyone have that available to share (within copyright laws of course) or able to give a layman's interpretation based solely on the literature?

-Ernie
 

smartie2000

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Also, you really don't know how much conclor and bellatulum is in wild wenshanense if it has gone through several generations.
 
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