Legal vs. Illegal

[NYEric]

I was discussing the matter at judging this weekend and the deal is don't bring the plants for AOS judging now. Eventually either you will be able to download a copy of required paperwork off the internet or there will be so many of the plants around that no-one will be able to tell legal from not so legal, ala vietnamense and helenae!

 

[SlipperFan]

Well all I can say is we heard today that gigantifolium from piping rock are legal, PERIOD. I have two gig from piping rock, and when they reach blooming size, which should not be that long. I am going to self them and sib them. I will get as many flasks as physically possible and send them to every person that will take them. That is all I can do on my end. I hope people get on board and do that with any of the other species, like the anitum that came in pre–cites as adductum.

Please keep me in mind!

Man, this topic makes me hot under the collar! If the CITES inspector allowed the entry,the plant should be legal. Forget "illegal 'forever'" that is quite honestly not true. If the plants were allowed into the USA, for example the WOC hangianums, ownership is legal, but commerce in them is not (this is how it was explained to me). Legally, if you trade in the no-no species, you risk the punishments, and those that own "rescue centers" reap the benefits of your labor. It's a very tidy arrangement for the "rescue-centers" and the Government!

EDIT: Because I become agitated about this topic, please assume that anything I say that may be mean or rude is not directed at anyone on this board

That goes for a lot of us! Maybe even all of us!

I was discussing the matter at judging this weekend and the deal is don't bring the plants for AOS judging now. Eventually either you will be able to download a copy of required paperwork off the internet or there will be so many of the plants around that no-one will be able to tell legal from not so legal, ala vietnamense and helenae!

I hope that happens sooner rather than later...

 

[gonewild]

if things are muddy, then they can change their tune at any time depending on how or what they want to enforce

Sadly that is the intent of the law.

 

[Gcroz]

Sadly that is the intent of the law.

a law, if I remember the history correctly, that was established to protect egrets from the feather trade. Nice to see the "one size fits all" approach is still being applied.

BTW, has anyone heard anything about the proposed "de-criminalization" amendment to the Lacey Act? Is it still in committee, or did it utterly fail?

Citation: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc112/h4171_ih.xml

 

[mormodes]

[snip]
BTW, has anyone heard anything about the proposed "de-criminalization" amendment to the Lacey Act? Is it still in committee, or did it utterly fail?

Citation: http://thomas.loc.gov/home/gpoxmlc112/h4171_ih.xml

According to govtrak it's in committee

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/112/hr4171

 

[gonewild]

In July the amendment failed for lack of support and has been dropped. It failed for lack of support. Our leaders are fine with the law as they wrote it.

 

[mormodes]

USFW inspectors have a CITES procedure manual they follow. In that manual are samples of each countries CITES certificates so they have them to compare to. If you are interested you can read the manual online.

I found a manual for checking fish health and a CITES manual for timber... *G* I'm sure its there somewhere but after trying various combinations for about a half an hour I figure its just too buried.

 

[Gcroz]

In July the amendment failed for lack of support and has been dropped. It failed for lack of support. Our leaders are fine with the law as they wrote it.

*Sigh* Oh well. At least someone is trying to do something.

 

[gonewild]

I found a manual for checking fish health and a CITES manual for timber... *G* I'm sure its there somewhere but after trying various combinations for about a half an hour I figure its just too buried.

Try this one, it seems to be a new version that I have not read, maybe it has some useful info.

http://www.aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/manuals/ports/downloads/plants_for_planting.pdf

You can view the sample CITES certificates in the Timber manual, the actual paper documents are the same forms.

 

[gonewild]

*Sigh* Oh well. At least someone is trying to do something.

At least they were but not now.

The pressure was (is) coming from the Music Industry. There is not enough support to get a change because the support in favor of the Lacey Act is huge from Conservation NGOs and the USA Timber Industry. The Lobbyists win as usual.

 

[Gcroz]

At least they were but not now.

The pressure was (is) coming from the Music Industry. There is not enough support to get a change because the support in favor of the Lacey Act is huge from Conservation NGOs and the USA Timber Industry. The Lobbyists win as usual.

Yes! You are correct. "Was" is the operative word.