Orchiata and Water/fertilizer

[gonewild]

The outer bark on trees (the stuff we use to grow orchids) is dead. In Pinus radiata, (orchiata) anything up to 15 layers (years) thick is dead tissue. In other species it can be just a few cells thick.
It probably resists attack from bacteria because it does not stay wet for long enough on the tree. Possibly some compounds get absorbed into it from deeper tissue???? But certainly not alive.
http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/generalbotany/barkfeatures/fulltextonly.html

Are you making a statement or quoting someone or something?

 

[Ozpaph]

Susan Booth ‘Highercombe’

 

[paphioland]

So I unpotted this plant just for you, Ken.
Orchiata + jumbo perlite + some charcoal.


image hosting over 10mb

I appreciate that. Do the roots grow into the center of the bark mass? The peripheral roots are great! How often do you repot? I've noticed in the plants I've tried to leave more than a year without repotting but the length between reporting is purported to be a benefit.

 

[Stone]

Are you making a statement or quoting someone or something?

The very fact that you feel it necessary to ask that makes me want to not answer.

But I will.......What difference does it make? You read it didn't you?

 

[Ozpaph]

I simply pulled the plant out of the pot and the rootball and 'mix' stayed intact. I assume there are roots in the middle but I wasnt about to shake it out with winter coming. That being said I still think healthy roots are healthy roots.
I dont think roots necessarily grow evenly through the pot. In nature they grow attached to surfaces - rock/bark etc through 'leaf litter'. They 'seek' solid surfaces so I don't expect them to 'sit' in the middle of the pot.
I repot 2nd yearly, in general. I do that because mostly they need the next size pot by then. I also think they respond to 'fresh' mix. Whether that means the 'trauma' stimulates new roots or that removing 'old/toxic' mix is good for them, I dont know.
Since changing to Orchiata a couple of years ago my catts and paphs are definitely better (obviously not a controlled experiment) - through better roots primarily.

 

[gonewild]

The very fact that you feel it necessary to ask that makes me want to not answer.

But I will.......What difference does it make? You read it didn't you?

Geeez Mike of course I read it but they way you formatted the quote it looked like you might be quoting someone else but sounded like it was your own words.
I simply wanted to know who or what I was going to respond to.
Forget I asked.

 

[gonewild]

The outer bark on trees (the stuff we use to grow orchids) is dead. In Pinus radiata, (orchiata) anything up to 15 layers (years) thick is dead tissue. In other species it can be just a few cells thick.
It probably resists attack from bacteria because it does not stay wet for long enough on the tree. Possibly some compounds get absorbed into it from deeper tissue???? But certainly not alive.
http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/generalbotany/barkfeatures/fulltextonly.html

Orchids don't grow on Pinus radiata trees. Maybe because the bark is dead! oke: (Or maybe because there are no orchid species in a Pinus radiata forest.)
Anyone living in a Pinus radiata forest or even having one in your yard knows that not much will grow near the trees. The resins in the needles and bark contain chemicals that suppress other species growth.

Even though the outer bark is clinically composed of dead cells without individual metabolism when the bark is attached to a living tree the outer dead bark is part of the living tree. Without the bark the tree would die... so that is my I refer to bark as being alive. The outer bark that is attached to a live tree is constantly shedding it's old outer cells as new outer bark is formed on the inner layers. The constant refresh on the outer layer is as if the dead bark does have life. Because of this refresh the orchid plant can remain healthy in the attached place for it's lifetime. When the tree dies the refresh of the outer bark stops and the orchid plant enters it's final phase of life in that location. Once the orchid falls it most likely will die. So this is why I say orchids don't grow naturally on dead wood. An orchid seed, if it germinates on a dead tree most likely will never establish, what's the use since the support host will never be a strong support and will soon be gone?
Orchid roots growing in a pot of dead bark may detect the same future.

Orchiata bark obviously has been through a process to neutralize the toxic chemicals. But maybe not all batches are as good as others so the question of whether orchid roots like to grow in the center of the media is a good one to discuss. So far no one has shown roots growing in Orchiata that filled the media space.

 

[paphioland]

I simply pulled the plant out of the pot and the rootball and 'mix' stayed intact. I assume there are roots in the middle but I wasnt about to shake it out with winter coming. That being said I still think healthy roots are healthy roots.
I dont think roots necessarily grow evenly through the pot. In nature they grow attached to surfaces - rock/bark etc through 'leaf litter'. They 'seek' solid surfaces so I don't expect them to 'sit' in the middle of the pot.
I repot 2nd yearly, in general. I do that because mostly they need the next size pot by then. I also think they respond to 'fresh' mix. Whether that means the 'trauma' stimulates new roots or that removing 'old/toxic' mix is good for them, I dont know.
Since changing to Orchiata a couple of years ago my catts and paphs are definitely better (obviously not a controlled experiment) - through better roots primarily.

Thanks for your experience.

 

[Ray]

Having unpotted a few plants that needed to be moved to larger pots, I assure you that roots grow throughout the medium. I'm not about to unpot one just to prove it to you, though.

 

[gonewild]

Having unpotted a few plants that needed to be moved to larger pots, I assure you that roots grow throughout the medium. I'm not about to unpot one just to prove it to you, though.

Ray, I hope you are not speaking to me because I did not ask the question or request "proof". I'm just interested in the accurate outcome of the request.
But one point that was made along with the question was that the "proof" should come from someone that does not have a financial interest in promoting Orchitia. (no offense to you).

 

[Ray]

First and foremost, I do not promote or sell ANYTHING that I do not use and believe in. I have found Orchiata to be an excellent potting medium, and have experienced none of the issues others claim to have seen.

Also, my financial interest in promoting it is soon to end. As my current stock is sold, I will no longer be carrying it. That applies to PrimeAgra, too, as I am narrowing my product line down to chemicals, RO systems and components, and lighting.

However, I will be holding onto some of each for my own use, will simply be a retail customer of them in the future, and will continue to promote them.

 

[gonewild]

First and foremost, I do not promote or sell ANYTHING that I do not use and believe in. I have found Orchiata to be an excellent potting medium, and have experienced none of the issues others claim to have seen.

Also, my financial interest in promoting it is soon to end. As my current stock is sold, I will no longer be carrying it. That applies to PrimeAgra, too, as I am narrowing my product line down to chemicals, RO systems and components, and lighting.

However, I will be holding onto some of each for my own use, will simply be a retail customer of them in the future, and will continue to promote them.

Of course Ray. That's why I said no offense to you.

 

[paphioland]

What I've taken from this is orchiata works well for one to two years and needs repotting just like other bark. The environment is probably toxic judging by the ph at the pot I've done over the years. The bark looks fine after years but the roots don't. This is what is suspected from my own experience. I still don't think the roots love the bark as much as fir bark but it doesn't break down as easy. I guess everything has advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Ozpaph]

I certainly dont.
What does Orchiata cost in the USA?

 

[paphioland]

I certainly dont.
What does Orchiata cost in the USA?

You don't repot every one to two years?

 

[Ozpaph]

I repot every 2 years for most paphs. Some of the big multis I leave 3 years. Catts I leave 3 years, mostly. They seem very happy. Orchiata is certainly much more 'resilient' that the stuff we've had in Oz for the last 5-10yrs. Its noticeably and considerably better than any local product (I havent tried 'Kiwi Bark').

Cost in USA???

 

[paphioland]

I don't remember the cost. I bought a pallete

 

[Ozpaph]

anyone, please?

 

[Stone]

http://www.quarteracreorchids.com/orchiata.html

 

[Ozpaph]

Thanks - so it cheaper here? (after exchange rates)