New Seedlings

[Ernie]

Does your light meter require batteries? I've found the analog ones that run without batteries (usually with a needle that swings back and forth http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=3658) can be all over the place- consistently. So they might tell you that 1200 fc is 700 fc all the time.

Shoot, man, just go with it. If you know that genus X grows and blooms well where your meter says it's 800 fc, that's just fine. Even if it's not a representation of reality.

 

[Rick]

My GH is under under natural light. In western Australia, the sunlight is pretty intense. Always tried to take the measurent at right angle to where the sun is and took the reading around 12-1pm.
250mm under the fluorescent light in my aquarium (Only use it in winter, with 150mm water and an aquarium heater) I could only get 160 ft candle.

What is the wattage of the bulb? See if you can get a reading right up next to the bulb.

10" from the bulb can be a long distance for an old low wattage bulb, and 160fc may not be that far off.

In our lab we have to use an anually "certified and calibrated" light meter for our tox tests, and right up next to a 40W bulb I think we typically clear around 800 fc. We only want about 100fc on the tests, which is about like the ambient room lighting from the overhead fixtures. For running an EPA algae test, we need a light level of about 500fc. To achieve that we have a foil lined box with 8, 20W bulbs about 10" from the water surface.

 

[Howzat]

Does your light meter require batteries? I've found the analog ones that run without batteries (usually with a needle that swings back and forth http://www.horticulturesource.com/product_info.php?products_id=3658) can be all over the place- consistently. So they might tell you that 1200 fc is 700 fc all the time.

Shoot, man, just go with it. If you know that genus X grows and blooms well where your meter says it's 800 fc, that's just fine. Even if it's not a representation of reality.

My Light meter is Al1334 with a range of 20-20,000 foot candle. This use battery 9V.

 

[Howzat]

What is the wattage of the bulb? See if you can get a reading right up next to the bulb.

10" from the bulb can be a long distance for an old low wattage bulb, and 160fc may not be that far off.

In our lab we have to use an anually "certified and calibrated" light meter for our tox tests, and right up next to a 40W bulb I think we typically clear around 800 fc. We only want about 100fc on the tests, which is about like the ambient room lighting from the overhead fixtures. For running an EPA algae test, we need a light level of about 500fc. To achieve that we have a foil lined box with 8, 20W bulbs about 10" from the water surface.

Rick, I checked my single fluoro light and it is an NEC T8, 37 W.. But that is about right if you have 8-20W and get 500fc??? 160W =500fc and mine 37W=150fc???. My lightmeter I bought from Scientific instrument shop is a Al1334 with batteriy of 9V.
Prior to this discussion I've never heard people (in WA) growing Paph under 1500-2000fc, even the Standard complex. Anyway it is a stimulating subject. WE 'll try to get to the bottom of this.

 

[hchan]

If all else fails, next time I'm in Perth we can do a side by side comparison with my light meter hehe (yes I got myself one).

By the way, for the purposes of some rough and ready benchmarking, what speed does everyone's new leaves grow at on their seedlings? I'm getting new leaf growth and I'm just curious as to how my cultural conditions are going. Does anyone have some rough info on mm per week or some other measure? Multifloral vs. non would be good or more detailed if you have it. Thanks

 

[Rick]

Rick, I checked my single fluoro light and it is an NEC T8, 37 W.. But that is about right if you have 8-20W and get 500fc??? 160W =500fc and mine 37W=150fc???. My lightmeter I bought from Scientific instrument shop is a Al1334 with batteriy of 9V.
Prior to this discussion I've never heard people (in WA) growing Paph under 1500-2000fc, even the Standard complex. Anyway it is a stimulating subject. WE 'll try to get to the bottom of this.

Checking in our lab your meter doesn't seem obviously off.

I put the sensor right up next to a 35 watt fluro and got 1000fc. Ten inches away 80fc.

Might have to look up more sources of suggested light levels. Who knows, you might get twice the growth rates you're getting now??

 

[Rick]

However you may need to consider that light/heat/humidity are interconnected.

If you are working in a warm environment to start with, adding more light can be detrimental because it will elevate leaf temps above the ambient just by conductance.

If the humidity is low that will further stress the plant when it is hot, by sucking out all the water in it. (Despite getting some evaporative cooling).


Seems like the Pacific NW people have real good luck with Pleurothalids types because it's cool, damp and dark a lot more than here in the South East US. But down here, our bulbos and Vandas are super easy.

 

[Howzat]

However you may need to consider that light/heat/humidity are interconnected.

If you are working in a warm environment to start with, adding more light can be detrimental because it will elevate leaf temps above the ambient just by conductance.

If the humidity is low that will further stress the plant when it is hot, by sucking out all the water in it. (Despite getting some evaporative cooling).


Seems like the Pacific NW people have real good luck with Pleurothalids types because it's cool, damp and dark a lot more than here in the South East US. But down here, our bulbos and Vandas are super easy.

I am also battling with low humidity. For all I have done in the last few year 1. lining the inside with soft plastic (guaranteed to last 10 years), air evaporative cooler (to control temp as well) constant auto misting (I can adjust this , now it is on every 15 minutes for 10 secs) the under the bench, I could only get 50% during summer afternoon. I winter I space it to every 50min for 8 secs. Even with evaporative cooler and I set at 30C (cuts in at about 28C), when the temp outside goes up to 40C, inside it is 35C. We have temp up to 45C once in a while. When hot (over 36C-43C) I have to go out and hand sprayin the plants to cool them down and also add humidity. In the last 3 days and today as well we are having 38-39C.
Sounds like you live in Florida ????

 

[emydura]

I am also battling with low humidity. For all I have done in the last few year 1. lining the inside with soft plastic (guaranteed to last 10 years), air evaporative cooler (to control temp as well) constant auto misting (I can adjust this , now it is on every 15 minutes for 10 secs) the under the bench, I could only get 50% during summer afternoon. I winter I space it to every 50min for 8 secs. Even with evaporative cooler and I set at 30C (cuts in at about 28C), when the temp outside goes up to 40C, inside it is 35C. We have temp up to 45C once in a while. When hot (over 36C-43C) I have to go out and hand sprayin the plants to cool them down and also add humidity. In the last 3 days and today as well we are having 38-39C.
Sounds like you live in Florida ????

I had the same problem here in Canberra. The summers here are hot and dry (except this year). I got one of those foggers from the US. Best thing I have ever bought. It is on a humidstat so comes on and off when it is required. Keeps the glasshouse humid as well as cool. The temperature never goes above 31oC in my glasshouse, even if it is 40oC + outside. I'm going to the coast on Monday for 5 or 6 days. The temperatures are projected 35-40oC every day. The fogger gives me peace of mind as I know the conditions will remain pretty stable inside the glasshouse irrespective of how hot it gets outside. I also find the increased humidity means I don't need to water that much in summer. I can go a week without watering. Funnily enough I probably water more in winter as the heating can really dry out my plants.

David

 

[SlipperFan]

Which fogger did you get, David?

 

[emydura]

Which fogger did you get, David?

Dot I bought the Jaybird Aqua400. I don't think they sell it anymore. I think it may have been superseded. It is mounted at the top of my glasshouse and the fine mist is propelled by a fan. You never see a dense fog.

It goes pretty well. I have to replace the pump every two years or so. That seems to be the most common problem. The pump is pretty cheap to buy though. It is a good idea to keep one or two spare so you can quickly have your fogger back working.

David

 

[SlipperFan]

Thanks, David. That's something I think I will eventually have to look into. I'll remember Jaybird.

 

[Rick]

I am also battling with low humidity. For all I have done in the last few year 1. lining the inside with soft plastic (guaranteed to last 10 years), air evaporative cooler (to control temp as well) constant auto misting (I can adjust this , now it is on every 15 minutes for 10 secs) the under the bench, I could only get 50% during summer afternoon. I winter I space it to every 50min for 8 secs. Even with evaporative cooler and I set at 30C (cuts in at about 28C), when the temp outside goes up to 40C, inside it is 35C. We have temp up to 45C once in a while. When hot (over 36C-43C) I have to go out and hand sprayin the plants to cool them down and also add humidity. In the last 3 days and today as well we are having 38-39C.
Sounds like you live in Florida ????

No I live in Tennessee, which is barely in what most consider the SE. We do see summer highs 32 - 38 but humidity will be up as high as 70% with breezes coming in from the south, and pretty regular rainfall throughout the year. More likely though summer humidity has been under 60%, winter with heating can drop it to 30%. My house is about 1000 ft elevation so a bit cooler than right in Nashville at 500ft. Ernie is in Florida now, so warmer and muggier than me.

I've gone through lots of gyrations to get my GH humidity up too. I went from misters to foggers (a Jaybird like David's) to wet pad. I use a humidistat in conjunction with thermostat rather than timers. When I put the misting system together, it worked well for temp and humidity control, but used so much water I almost floated my house off its foundation:sob:

That's when I got the fogger. Definitely more efficient for cooling and humidification, but since it runs on my crusty@!$% well water my plants get covered with a layer of sticky white dust (hard water deposits). It does use a fraction of the water that the misting system would use. Thats when I built the wet pad (known as a swamp cooler in this part of the world). It covers about 80% of my temperature and humidification needs, but I still have the fogger to bail me out for the peaks. Fortunately since the swamp cooler is doing most of the work, the amount of "white dust" is much less of a problem.

 

[Rick]

Dot I bought the Jaybird Aqua400. I don't think they sell it anymore. I think it may have been superseded. It is mounted at the top of my glasshouse and the fine mist is propelled by a fan. You never see a dense fog.

It goes pretty well. I have to replace the pump every two years or so. That seems to be the most common problem. The pump is pretty cheap to buy though. It is a good idea to keep one or two spare so you can quickly have your fogger back working.

David

I think I've had mine for about 5 years and still use the original pump. But I do have to take the whole thing apart and clean the algae and hard water deposits out of it fairly regularly. I'm still pretty happy with it.

Even according to the Jaybird people they are making "droplets" a bit bigger than true fog (which I think takes a highly pressurized device or ultrasonic energy), but it's still way better than a misting system for the price and operational cost.

 

[emydura]

I think I've had mine for about 5 years and still use the original pump. But I do have to take the whole thing apart and clean the algae and hard water deposits out of it fairly regularly. I'm still pretty happy with it.

Even according to the Jaybird people they are making "droplets" a bit bigger than true fog (which I think takes a highly pressurized device or ultrasonic energy), but it's still way better than a misting system for the price and operational cost.

You are lucky. I think I have replaced 2 or 3 pumps now (average lifespan of 2 years). Jaybird told me it is the most common problem and that it is not unusual to have to replace them. Fortunately for me our water is low in TDS so I don't have the problem of the white hard water deposits all over my orchids.

David

 

[SlipperFan]

Would softened water be appropriate for a fogger? I know that softened water is inappropriate for watering, but what about fogging?

 

[Rick]

Would softened water be appropriate for a fogger? I know that softened water is inappropriate for watering, but what about fogging?

It's better for the fogger, but still just as bad for the plants getting fogged.

The Jaybird 400 (or similar foggers) run at about 1/2 gal per hour if I remember correctly, which you could run on RO water if you couldn't get away with your regular tap water.

What is the hardness of your tap water Dot?

 

[emydura]

Dot - whatever you get, make sure you get one with a humidistat. It was an optional extra with the Jaybird 400. They are a bit pointless without one.

David

 

[SlipperFan]

Dot - whatever you get, make sure you get one with a humidistat. It was an optional extra with the Jaybird 400. They are a bit pointless without one.

David

Yes -- thanks! I have 3 right now, but they all read differently, by as much as 10º! I hope the ones Jaybird sells are accurate.

 

[Rick]

Yes -- thanks! I have 3 right now, but they all read differently, by as much as 10º! I hope the ones Jaybird sells are accurate.

Are you referring to hygrometers (strictly measuring humidity) or humidistats (which control devices that make humidity). Are the 3 you have all right next to each other for comparison? If so then you probably need to junk one of them. But it wouldn't surprise me to see a 10% difference several feet apart in the same GH.

Actually as long as you have a hygrometer you trust, then the "accuracy" of any humidistat is irrelevant, since you just set it in to turn on/off your appliance in accordance to your most trusted hygrometer.