Names and pronunciations

[Jimsox]

I was wondering about a good book to purchase on finding out how to say all these names?? I feel like a dummy sometimes trying to tell what I have and want. Also could some one please explain the way a paph is named, like Paph. Michael koopowitz (philippinese ‘birchwood’ x sanderianum ‘fox croft’). What stands for what here? Is there an order to this madness? Any books to help with this? Web sites would be ok too!!!! Thanks for the help in advance!!! Jimi

 

[Orchidzrule]

Hi Jimi,

I'll take a stab at this. If you see a plant with a Latinized name it's usually a species. By the way, although many people will use "specie" as singular for a species, this is wrong, wrong, WRONG. (When I hear some people saying it, I have to fight a strong urge to slap him/her! LOL I'm kidding--sort of.) Species is correctly used both as a singular and a plural. (Like sheep. You don't say sheeps.)

(There are a few exceptions to a Latinized name being used only for species. I'll deal with them later.) Anyhow, if it's a hybrid, it will either have a non Latin name (English, French, Chinese, whatever), or it will have two (sometimes more) Latin names with an X (or x) between them, signifying a cross between those species. (Or between two or more hybrids, just to make it more confusing!)

If someone makes a cross, they can register it with the Royal Horticultural Society and name it. From that point on, all crosses made from the same parental types are known by that registered name. In the example you used, any cross between sanderianum & philippinense is Michael Koopowitz. There are some crosses that never get registered and must always be identified by the parental names with the x between them. I have no idea why some don't get registered.

The Royal Horticultural Society has a website where you can look up crosses. You can inquire what the proper name of the offspring of any cross is, or you can type in the name of hybrid and it will tell you the name of the parents. The URL is:
http://www.rhs.org.uk/plants/registerpages/orchidresults.asp

This information can also be found by software like OrchidWiz. In my opinion, it's much easier to use than the RHS website, which is rather cumbersome.

There are some very old hybrids that may have Latinized names. One I can think of off the top of my head is Phragmipedium Sedenii, a cross between schlimii & longifolium. Originally, hybrids could have Latin names, then the powers that be ruled against it. I believe natural hybrids are still allowed to be given Latin names.

The last part of a name is a clonal name, and they are always enclosed by single quotation marks. In your example, 'Birchwood' & 'Fox Croft" were particular clones of presumably superior examples of philippinense & sanderianum, respectively. All Paph philippinense 'Birchwood' originated as a single plant, of which divisions have been made.

So, I've probably made this as clear as mud! I can only say that you will find the terminology easier to use, and you'll feel more comfortable with it, as you continue to work at it. It will get better--I promise!

If there are any items I've missed, I hope others will jump in.

 

[Elena]

This is a website that I found (and still do!) useful for all sorts of info.
http://ladyslipper.com/paphfaq.htm

What does the name on my label mean? is answered towards the bottom of the page

Hope this helps

 

[PaphMadMan]

A good book on pronunciation of botanical names: 'Botanical Latin' by William T. Stearn. You should be able to find in on Amazon or elsewhere for about $20.

Using your example, Paph. Michael Koopowitz (philippinense ‘Birchwood’ x sanderianum ‘Fox Croft’):

Michael Koopowitz is the registered hybrid name for the cross between 2 species, Paph. philippinense and Paph. sanderianum, in either order. No other Paph. hybrid may be given the same name. The only ways to get Paph Micheal Koopowitz is to cross those 2 species, or cross Michael Koopowitz with another Michael Koopowitz or itself. Only RHS can approve an orchid hybrid name.

When a cross is listed like (philippinense x sanderianum), it tells you the first species (or hybrid) listed carried the seed pod, and the second one listed provided the pollen.

'Birchwood' and 'Fox Croft' are clonal names (also called cultivars). One original plant of a species or hybrid is given such a name to distinguish it from all others, and all plants that are propagated from that original by division (or cloning with some types of orchids) are given the same name. In orchids you can not propagate a cultivar by seed. When naming a hybrid (as for Michael Koopowitz) the clonal names of the parents do not matter, but are often provided to be specific about desirable parents. Anyone can give their plant a clonal name, but a clonal name can only be used once with a particular species or hybrid, so choices should be made with care to be unique.

I'm sure others will (or already have) provided answers too. Try not to get overwhelmed, it will all make sense eventually.

 

[goldenrose]

Pronunciation - :rollhappy: nobody butchers 'em like I do! If in doubt shorten it! In most cases one can get by, by sounding it out. Another part is the syllables.
Ex. - bellatulum, shorten it to bella, most know what you mean! In my way of sounding it out = bella tu lum. What is the proper pronunciation?
bel latch u lum.
Species ending in double i's, pronounce both i's.
Ex. sangii = san gee i.
How did I do?

 

[Elena]

How'd ya pronounce that Pharg warwekczpklsxz........

Actually, rothschildianum is the one I'm never quite sure about.

I might get that Botanical Latin book :rollhappy:

 

[nikv]

I've had an ongoing debate with an orchid friend over the proper pronunciation of the artificial genus Vuylstekeara. Anyone here want to join in on the debate? I've been wanting to know how to pronounce it for twenty years now.

 

[Ron-NY]

Pronunciation - :rollhappy: nobody butchers 'em like I do! If in doubt shorten it! In most cases one can get by, by sounding it out. Another part is the syllables.
Ex. - bellatulum, shorten it to bella, most know what you mean! In my way of sounding it out = bella tu lum. What is the proper pronunciation?
bel latch u lum.
Species ending in double i's, pronounce both i's.
Ex. sangii = san gee i.
How did I do?

bel latch u lum...This is the pronunciation that I use...hopefully correctly

 

[Ron-NY]

How'd ya pronounce that Pharg warwekczpklsxz........

Actually, rothschildianum is the one I'm never quite sure about.

I might get that Botanical Latin book :rollhappy:

You have to be Polish to pronounce the fist one, LOL.

rothschildianum is an easier one...most of these species names have a person's last name as part of it...in this case it is named after Baron Ferdinand de Rothschild, a famous Victorian Period orchid grower. ...so, although I am not an English major, it is pronounced roths-child-ee-an-um

 

[Ron-NY]

I've had an ongoing debate with an orchid friend over the proper pronunciation of the artificial genus Vuylstekeara. Anyone here want to join in on the debate? I've been wanting to know how to pronounce it for twenty years now.

Well...here is my shot at this one ....vul-stek-ee-AH-ruh...at least this is how I have heard it pronounced multi times. I am positive on the last three syllables It was named for Charles Vuylsteke, an early 20th century Belgian orchid hybridizer.

 

[nikv]

^ ^
Cool! I win! My friend keeps pronouncing it vul-stuh-CARE-ee-uh.

 

[Elena]

rothschildianum is an easier one...most of these species names have a person's last name as part of it...in this case Rothschild. ...so, although I am not an English major, it is pronounced roths-child-ee-an-um

See that was my instinct too. However, couple of years ago they were showing EYOF on TV as part or Chelsea Flower Show coverage and the EYOF employee pronounced it differently. He said it quickly but it sounded a bit peculiar, something like rotskil-dye-anum

 

[Leo Schordje]

I will toss in my 2 cents. First botanical descriptions and names are deliberately in a blend of several dead languages - Vulgate Latin and Classical Greek being the most common sources for this blend. Most of the words used are adjectives and nouns, ie. descriptors. The names chosen tend to describe a trait of the species being described, or the location, or a person involved with the discovery. Since Vulgate Latin died out of common use over a millenium ago:

1.) There is no ultimate authority on how these things are pronounced, there are regional conventions, but there is no "ultimate" authority toward pronounciation. Just listen to how others pronounce the words locally, that is the 'correct' pronounciation. The book that PaphMadMan cited is the best starting point for the USA regional 'dialect' of botanical language. BUt if you are off a bit - don't worry. Nobody will scold you, it is not like mispronouncing French. oke:

2.) Many - perhaps half or more of the botanical names honor a person. In this case, as much as practical, pronounce the base name as the namesake would say it, in that language. The latinized ending should not change the syllable that is accented in the source name. Paph lowii and Paph sangii are named after Mr. Sang, and Mr. Low. Phrag warscewiczianum is after Baron Joseph Ritter von Rawicz, or Warscewicz in Polish. (Var sha vicks is my approximation of the prounciation) Unfortunately I do not have a clue how to handle Mr. Vuylsteke 's name.

3.) names that are descriptors often come from the same latin roots that some English names come from. Rose's example Paph bellatulum does come from the latin root beau in the masculine form and belle in the feminine meaning beautiful, which is the same in French similar in Italian. So many of these names really have familiar root words.

Basically, keep those thoughts in mind, and relax & enjoy
Leo

 

[Ron-NY]

Leo, I came across this recently

"Joseph Warscewicz, Ritter von Ravicz (1812 -1866)
The above spelling of the man’s name is the correct version and it is pronounced ‘Warsse-witch’. There are a number of plants bearing this name as the specific epithet and some of the erroneous spelling had been accepted"

 

[Heather]

I think Ron is right here, and roth is roth-schild-ianum.

I love that botanical latin book but remember that taxonomy changes practically daily. It might all be different soon!

Just a thought.

 

[Drorchid]

Well...here is my shot at this one ....vul-stek-ee-AH-ruh...at least this is how I have heard it pronounced multi times. I am positive on the last three syllables It was named for Charles Vuylsteke, an early 20th century Belgian orchid hybridizer.

That is probably the "English" way to pronounce it. I am assuming that Vuylsteke is a Flemmish name so it should be pronounced a little different. There is no equivalent in English to the way you pronounce "Vuyl" but it is the same as in the Dutch word "Huis"

When it comes to Latin words we in the Netherlands and most of the continental Europe, pronounce the Latin words different as well compared to how they are pronounced in English speaking countries. We pronounce them more like how the French or Italian would pronounce them (an e is pronounced as "a", an i is pronounced as "e" etc). It was kind of confusing when I first came to the States, as I would pronounce all the botanical species all the Dutch way.

Robert

 

[JeanLux]

Reminds me of my visit to the Dijon WOC!! Listening to the lectures given in english by a lot of different people of different nationalities, I was happy to understand ( but only in most cases) about what genus or species they were talking: that set, the rest was rather easy to follow!
taking the example of paph bellatulum I will try to reproduce my understanding of its 'luxembourgish' pronunciation in english :
bell u t oo(short) l oo(short) m

crazy but different, I would not dare to attac rothschildianum pronunciation

Jean

 

[arcticshaun]

Interesting ... because I read 'Orchidese' all the time but rarely do I get to try to speak it with other orchid growers. I do get a few odd looks at orchid shows when I try to discuss certain species (I say sar-ko-chi-lus, raised eyebrow, do you mean Sar-ko-kay-lus , er uh yes I do). At least my Taylor's Guide to Orchids has some pronunciations included but that doesn't stop me from butchering names all the time.

Shaun

 

[Leo Schordje]

Leo, I came across this recently

"Joseph Warscewicz, Ritter von Ravicz (1812 -1866)
The above spelling of the man’s name is the correct version and it is pronounced ‘Warsse-witch’. There are a number of plants bearing this name as the specific epithet and some of the erroneous spelling had been accepted"

Thanks Ron, you are right. Almost does not count when spelling.
I got to keep more reference books here at work. Memory is not enough.

Thanks - Leo

 

[Clark]

Perhaps last year I heard of a site, that if one typed in the Latin, an audio
replied the name. Never found that site. Anyone?