I agree... almost all growers sold me someday some plants with scales, false spides mites or mealybugs even if they use "strong" chemichals.
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I agree... almost all growers sold me someday some plants with scales, false spides mites or mealybugs even if they use "strong" chemichals.
Stella
Well-Known Member
Oh, I know what toothbrush means
Do you mean that you use a toothbrush to clean the mealies without any chemical??? That is what confuse me....
SlipperFan
Addicted
I don't know that I'd use a toothbrush on mealies -- a little too rough, I think. A cotton-tipped toothpick or Q-tip dipped in alcohol works well. As does spraying the little buggers with alcohol (drug-store type).
Stella
Well-Known Member
I do exactly the same thing if the infection is limited (seems to work the cotton-tip) otherwise I spray with chemicals....
L
lepetitmartien
Guest
On my side, it's:
- Cleaning of beasts with cotton, q-tip, and Alcohol 70°.
- General spraying of a mix water/alcohol/safer soap. Repeated every 2-3 days and when spotting a monster.
- If the invasion is severe, a bath with 3 tsp of alcohol / liter of water to eliminate those hidden in the pot (after a watering to limit exchanges), then I rince. (note, I do this on Phals, as I only have mealies on them)
- Or eventual repotting as its not always the right time.
- Spraying of a dilution of nettle manure at 1-2%, to boost defences and given the plant a baaaad taste. Mealies don't like.
- every watering for a month with 1-2% of nettle manure.
And if after a month there's still some suckers, I go on chemicals, they are so weak it's the end of it.
- Cleaning of beasts with cotton, q-tip, and Alcohol 70°.
- General spraying of a mix water/alcohol/safer soap. Repeated every 2-3 days and when spotting a monster.
- If the invasion is severe, a bath with 3 tsp of alcohol / liter of water to eliminate those hidden in the pot (after a watering to limit exchanges), then I rince. (note, I do this on Phals, as I only have mealies on them)
- Or eventual repotting as its not always the right time.
- Spraying of a dilution of nettle manure at 1-2%, to boost defences and given the plant a baaaad taste. Mealies don't like.
- every watering for a month with 1-2% of nettle manure.
And if after a month there's still some suckers, I go on chemicals, they are so weak it's the end of it.
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
Oh, I know what toothbrush means
Do you mean that you use a toothbrush to clean the mealies without any chemical??? That is what confuse me....
No, not without, but the brush does a great deal during the first stage, then chemicals..,and ev. brush again.. ! Jean
naoki
Well-Known Member
LPM, do you use nettle water as the source of NH4 nitrogen? Or is there something else against the insect?
Stella
Well-Known Member
Piece of cake. I've had a mealy / thrips combo lately and I just unpotted / repotted / treated / isolated in bags each and every one of them. Mealies are out. As for thrips,I'll rely on auxiliaries for the last round:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orvvxkbz8rE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orvvxkbz8rE
phraggy
Well-Known Member
There's a product called vitax 2 in 1. Either mix it yourself or buy the spray bottle. It not only kills all the bugs but puts a very thin film over the plant which eliminates the eggs of critters by cutting off their oxygen supply. Works every time,
Ed
Ed
L
lepetitmartien
Guest
For nettle water, there's terpenes that are precursors of defenses of plants. And insects and mites don't like.
I don't know what happens in the fermentation to other potents molecules that are in the nettles (the stinging part), it's never addressed in the literature I've read on the subject.
With fresh nettles it kills (12-24h maceration), with first fermentation (a few days to 2-3 weeks), it's repulsive. Never use the second fermentation (the stinky one, the state of stink afterwards) as repulsive, it'll bring in pests, but you can use it to activate compost or water plants by watering the soil, but never on the plant.
And besides it brings N and elements that are god for the plant, as long as it's diluted enough. There was an article on the SFO website giving a 5% dilution for orchids (article removed seemingly), the actual article is back at 20% which is the usual dilution for all plants. Myself I use 1-2% dilutions as I search the repulsive effect mainly.
I'm making small experiments with it as sole treatment after a thorough cleaning, I have not the perfect procedure yet for all case but have greatly reduced my use of chemicals to some mealies reluctant to die. (For the hairsplitters here, it's not scientific, I don't have the time, the money and the plants in dozens to make such thing.)
Note that I'm in Europe, and use the common stinging nettle here (Urtica dioica) which is the one commonly used in this, or the stabilized product available for trade. It's possible to buy dry Urtica dioica for the time of the year when it's not fresh out there.
There's Urtica plants all around the world, by I would be very cautious with other plants in the genus, some species can kill… (especially in Oz and Papua afaik).
(There's silica in it btw…
LOL
Thanks LPM! And I am proud to say Urtica dioica is a common weed here too!
BTW, can you tell me if there is any risk of virus transmission by using nettle water on orchids?
BTW, can you tell me if there is any risk of virus transmission by using nettle water on orchids?
Great LPM!
I can confirm the three degrees of fermentation, used them in my garden. As it is a bit difficult to choose the right day for 1st fermentation (depends on temperature) I don't use it any more for orchids, nor indoors. There are fine rooted orchids that don't like it at all (Dendrobium), even very diluted. I assume it is because of the high amount of bacterial activity in fresh nettle water.
But in the garden its liquid gold!
I can confirm the three degrees of fermentation, used them in my garden. As it is a bit difficult to choose the right day for 1st fermentation (depends on temperature) I don't use it any more for orchids, nor indoors. There are fine rooted orchids that don't like it at all (Dendrobium), even very diluted. I assume it is because of the high amount of bacterial activity in fresh nettle water.
But in the garden its liquid gold!
naoki
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, and thanks for the info, LPM!
L
lepetitmartien
Guest
To help, the recipe :
(note, it's not the legal in france, as it's been fixed by a ministry law, and the official recipe is wrong…)
- fresh nettles (usually before flowering, but it's just for convenience for filtering, flowers and seeds make a mess…) 1 kg. Choose only clean, unstained, nettles, without fungus marks nettles.
(or dried nettles 200-300g)
Don't think that adding more will make it better, it won't.
- rain water 10 liters (No hard water! It must be acid)
- a container, more wide than deep (for practical reasons when mixing the witch soup) larger than necessary. A large plastic bin is fine. Wood is fine, but no metal!
- a place protected of the sun, of wind, with a regular temperature if possible in the 15-25°C range.
- preferably a big tissue bag, or a wood piece to put on the nettles or a cover (with an opening)
- Something to turn the mixture
- A colander (with a 1-2mm net), pieces of clothes or an old tee shirt to filter (not too wide, not to small openings)
Large quantities are easier to control than small ones.
Set the nettles in pieces a few cm long, in the container, cover with the water. turn the mixture to remove the air bubbles. Add the cover.
Turn a few minutes the mixture everyday, or twice a day if it's hot. After 24-48 hours a foam of small bubbles will turn up, it's the first fermentation. It'll last 4-5 days to 2-3 weeks depending of the temperature. The hotter, the faster. Don't go too fast, the timelapse to stop the fermentation is short (a day at best) and should not be missed.
As long as there's the foamy little bubbles, there should be nothing else to do. There should be next to no odor save maybe those of nettles, it can go stronger but never stinky.
When the bubbles stop, the first fermentation is done, it's time to filter and store. The surface of the liquid should be a little oily. Removed the big bits (the big tissue bag helps here), then use the colander to filter, then the tee shirt. The liquid in the end should be quite transparent, though colored (green yellow, but mine is red-brown), the filtering must not be perfect, just spraysafe. The aim is to remove the bits with chlorophyl, that can fuel the second fermentation.
The garbage filtered can be used in compost.
Store in plastic bottles/containers, with no air inside, in the dark and in a fresh place. It should stay fine for months.
There's stabilization processes around, to help conservation. but I have no access to those used by pro-ducers here. So I can't help on this, one may involve lactoserum, another a toxic compound (sulfur dioxide), note that I don't know which are used and how, it may even be something else, it's the only information I've found yet.
If it STINKS, it went thru the second fermentation and should not be used as repulsive, it won't work…
About viruses… I've searched on my own, asked a friend who has access to scientific literature databases, and I have not been able to find:
- if nettles have viruses in common with orchids, not even a list of viruses infecting nettles.
- if viruses survive the fermentation.
So I'm in the dark in this regard.
Hope this helps
(note, it's not the legal in france, as it's been fixed by a ministry law, and the official recipe is wrong…)
- fresh nettles (usually before flowering, but it's just for convenience for filtering, flowers and seeds make a mess…) 1 kg. Choose only clean, unstained, nettles, without fungus marks nettles.
(or dried nettles 200-300g)
Don't think that adding more will make it better, it won't.
- rain water 10 liters (No hard water! It must be acid)
- a container, more wide than deep (for practical reasons when mixing the witch soup) larger than necessary. A large plastic bin is fine. Wood is fine, but no metal!
- a place protected of the sun, of wind, with a regular temperature if possible in the 15-25°C range.
- preferably a big tissue bag, or a wood piece to put on the nettles or a cover (with an opening)
- Something to turn the mixture
- A colander (with a 1-2mm net), pieces of clothes or an old tee shirt to filter (not too wide, not to small openings)
Large quantities are easier to control than small ones.
Set the nettles in pieces a few cm long, in the container, cover with the water. turn the mixture to remove the air bubbles. Add the cover.
Turn a few minutes the mixture everyday, or twice a day if it's hot. After 24-48 hours a foam of small bubbles will turn up, it's the first fermentation. It'll last 4-5 days to 2-3 weeks depending of the temperature. The hotter, the faster. Don't go too fast, the timelapse to stop the fermentation is short (a day at best) and should not be missed.
As long as there's the foamy little bubbles, there should be nothing else to do. There should be next to no odor save maybe those of nettles, it can go stronger but never stinky.
When the bubbles stop, the first fermentation is done, it's time to filter and store. The surface of the liquid should be a little oily. Removed the big bits (the big tissue bag helps here), then use the colander to filter, then the tee shirt. The liquid in the end should be quite transparent, though colored (green yellow, but mine is red-brown), the filtering must not be perfect, just spraysafe. The aim is to remove the bits with chlorophyl, that can fuel the second fermentation.
The garbage filtered can be used in compost.
Store in plastic bottles/containers, with no air inside, in the dark and in a fresh place. It should stay fine for months.
There's stabilization processes around, to help conservation. but I have no access to those used by pro-ducers here. So I can't help on this, one may involve lactoserum, another a toxic compound (sulfur dioxide), note that I don't know which are used and how, it may even be something else, it's the only information I've found yet.
If it STINKS, it went thru the second fermentation and should not be used as repulsive, it won't work…
About viruses… I've searched on my own, asked a friend who has access to scientific literature databases, and I have not been able to find:
- if nettles have viruses in common with orchids, not even a list of viruses infecting nettles.
- if viruses survive the fermentation.
So I'm in the dark in this regard.
Hope this helps
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I wonder if lady slipper/Phrag Man - is still around?!
To help, the recipe :
(note, it's not the legal in france, as it's been fixed by a ministry law, and the official recipe is wrong…)
- fresh nettles (usually before flowering, but it's just for convenience for filtering, flowers and seeds make a mess…) 1 kg. Choose only clean, unstained, nettles, without fungus marks nettles.
(or dried nettles 200-300g)
Don't think that adding more will make it better, it won't.
- rain water 10 liters (No hard water! It must be acid)
- a container, more wide than deep (for practical reasons when mixing the witch soup) larger than necessary. A large plastic bin is fine. Wood is fine, but no metal!
- a place protected of the sun, of wind, with a regular temperature if possible in the 15-25°C range.
- preferably a big tissue bag, or a wood piece to put on the nettles or a cover (with an opening)
- Something to turn the mixture
- A colander (with a 1-2mm net), pieces of clothes or an old tee shirt to filter (not too wide, not to small openings)
Large quantities are easier to control than small ones.
Set the nettles in pieces a few cm long, in the container, cover with the water. turn the mixture to remove the air bubbles. Add the cover.
Turn a few minutes the mixture everyday, or twice a day if it's hot. After 24-48 hours a foam of small bubbles will turn up, it's the first fermentation. It'll last 4-5 days to 2-3 weeks depending of the temperature. The hotter, the faster. Don't go too fast, the timelapse to stop the fermentation is short (a day at best) and should not be missed.
As long as there's the foamy little bubbles, there should be nothing else to do. There should be next to no odor save maybe those of nettles, it can go stronger but never stinky.
When the bubbles stop, the first fermentation is done, it's time to filter and store. The surface of the liquid should be a little oily. Removed the big bits (the big tissue bag helps here), then use the colander to filter, then the tee shirt. The liquid in the end should be quite transparent, though colored (green yellow, but mine is red-brown), the filtering must not be perfect, just spraysafe. The aim is to remove the bits with chlorophyl, that can fuel the second fermentation.
The garbage filtered can be used in compost.
Store in plastic bottles/containers, with no air inside, in the dark and in a fresh place. It should stay fine for months.
There's stabilization processes around, to help conservation. but I have no access to those used by pro-ducers here. So I can't help on this, one may involve lactoserum, another a toxic compound (sulfur dioxide), note that I don't know which are used and how, it may even be something else, it's the only information I've found yet.
If it STINKS, it went thru the second fermentation and should not be used as repulsive, it won't work…
About viruses… I've searched on my own, asked a friend who has access to scientific literature databases, and I have not been able to find:
- if nettles have viruses in common with orchids, not even a list of viruses infecting nettles.
- if viruses survive the fermentation.
So I'm in the dark in this regard.
Hope this helps
Thank you!
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I don't even know what nettles are!
L
lepetitmartien
Guest
You'll know it when it'll sting you. :evil::evil::evil:
(For the silica part, the "injectors" of nettles are made of it, pure silica glass which is inert.) :fight:
(For the silica part, the "injectors" of nettles are made of it, pure silica glass which is inert.) :fight:
NYEric
Well-Known Member
I looked it up. Not much chance of that in the concrete jungle! BTW i didn't know you could cook and eat them!
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