Massacre in Orlando

[My Green Pets]

Situation

At least 50 murdered in a gay dance club last night by one gunman.
Picture painted by media is that the shooter was a religious extremist targeting a specific demographic. The shooter cannot speak for himself because he is dead.

Thoughts

That could have been me.
That could have been someone I know.
This will happen again.
I don't feel safe - anywhere.
I want to fight this.
I don't want to die.
If I really want to fight this, I can't be afraid to die.
The fear of dying affects my decisions.
I am manipulated by fear.
A leader who makes me feel safe has a better chance of getting my support.
Strong fear can be subdued by strong assurance and strong actions.
People are easily united against a common enemy.
A leader will deliver strong assurance by directing strong actions against a common enemy.
Who decides the common enemy?
Who receives the blame?
Will I support strong actions against certain people because I am afraid?
Will I support strong actions against certain people because I want retaliation?
To what degree will I allow fear to control me?
To what degree am I already controlled?
What circumstances have lead to the present situation?
What can I do to improve the present situation for everyone?

This is not the first massacre in history. It is not the last. It is a strong action meant to provoke a strong response. The anticipated response is anger, fear, and/or retaliation. The anticipated response is the desired response.

How will I respond?

 

[troy]

I agree lance

 

[Lanmark]

The shooter's father says his son was motivated by hatred for and anger against gay men and not by his religion, though I can't help but believe his religion and maybe even his father may have played a part in fueling his hatred.

 

[Lanmark]

It is now being reported that the shooter called 911 before the shooting and pledged his allegiance to ISIS/ISIL.

 

[Lanmark]

Huh?

 

[ehanes7612]

The FBI has him on a terror list and did nothing to stop him. The FBI allowed him to carry out the murder of 50+ people. The FBI has 20 "Ranchers" (Oregon) in prison waiting trial on terrorism charges for having a peaceful (non violent) occupation of a remote wildlife refuge. One rancher was executed by law enforcement and the others systematically arrested and held in solitary confinement on charges of terrorism. This is happening right now. YET the FBI lets a real terrorist suspect manage to kill 50 people. Is the FBI really that stupid or are they being directed to allow Islamic terrorists to remain free while professed American "Patriots" are imprisoned?

There are hundreds if not thousands on terror lists..should we just go lock them all up on a hunch? This person was a US citizen..should we just have stripped his rights on a hunch or an affiliation to Islam because his parents were from Afghanistan? This was a random act that could have happened anywhere..the timeline doesn't compare to what happened in Oregon. Oregon was a long drawn out episode in which the participants were given ample opportunity to stand down. How do you know what the FBI did or did not do?..were you part of their investigation?..do you have access to their reports?..don't be a pawn by spreading misinformation. You are enflaming the issue by comparing apples to orangutans and giving more fuel to hatred. Why don't you STFU before all the facts come in, you obviously cant hold back your anger, which is making you stupid.

 

[ehanes7612]

STFU???? For you to say that based on what I wrote only shows you are the pawn. You always tell someone with an opposing political opinion to STFU or use some other offensive term. And I did not even state a political opinion.

Who said anything about hatred? Not me.
But since you asked about locking up the gentleman....The media reports the sweet young citizen made contact with foreign terror cells. His work associates are quoted as saying he had a bad attitude about non Muslums. And his wife said he constantly beat her for no reason. So yes the FBI should have locked him up, especially since he was a Citizien.

Instead of telling people to STFU you should maybe extend them their rights as a Citizen and either ignore them or make a respectful reply.
When you tell someone to STFU you are the one fueling hatred.

telling people to STFU is not me taking away anyone's rights..just so you know..me preventing someone from posting would be me taking away their rights..you really have a perverted view about the constitution and you seem to have a hard time making proper distinctions , huh? You really don' understand the consequences of your rants do you? you really don't seem to understand how you jumping to conclusions affects people? you have little respect for keeping the calm..you are someone who seems to get off on spreading fear... well, here is me pushing it back in your face

 

[ehanes7612]

How and when have I spread fear or mis information?
Have you seen the news? ISIS takes credit for the attack. The terrorist called it in and pledged allegiance to ISIS. The guy beat his wife. He was an Islamic Terrorist. The only reason I replied to this thread was because the original post was worded to sound like the shooter may have been a Christian extremist that hated Gays. So I stated hat was already fact It was an Islamic terrorist. Everything I wrote about the event has been published as factual.

Now according to PCness an Islamic terrorist has nothing to do with an accepted religion since Islam does not tolerate violence or hatred. So again I was correct to point out the inadvertent error in the original post which could mislead people into thinking the shooter was a white redneck Christian homosexual hater..

Now, you are just equivocating

You are not as smart as you think you are or you would not assume I am stupid. You would not suggest that I spread hatred since I have not made any hateful statements.

I really don't care what you think or say about me but I do hate rudeness. I really did not know it was now the accepted way for educated people to speak and write in public. Stupid me.

Well, if you hate rudeness then you actually care what I say, about you. Educated people are humans, they can be rude as much as anyone else....you need to get out more. And I am as smart as I am ...sometimes I am smarter , sometimes not so much. I act stupid sometimes...we all do, we all have our trigger points that stress us and make us act the way we do. Obviously, my rudeness offends some people...definitely you..so be it...but you should understand that your dribble affects people too. You can rationalize it all you want but you just keep digging your hole deeper and deeper.

 

[ehanes7612]

"Instead of telling people to STFU you should maybe extend them their rights as a Citizen"

okay, you don't even know what you wrote and it's right in front of you..you are lost and confused now.......I think you need to take a long breather..maybe a vision quest ..take some hallucinogens and go on a hundred mile hike and find yourself or something...BTW, you can have the last word

 

[Lanmark]

The only reason I replied to this thread was because the original post was worded to sound like the shooter may have been a Christian extremist that hated Gays.

The original poster most certainly did not make it sound like it was a Christian extremist. Christianity was never even mentioned.

The facts are these: a bunch of people are dead and wounded due to hatred, bias, bigotry and all-too-easy access to guns. It keeps happening in this country over and over and over again. It's sickening, and something has to change.

This event has nothing to do with the odious yahoos in Oregon who decided to hole up with a bunch of weapons on federally protected land.

The FBI, furthermore, didn't shoot up all these people. We are a nation of laws. The FBI followed the letter of the law.

Stop with the red herrings. Put blame squarely where it belongs: ignorance, bias, hatred, intolerance, bigotry, the roots for most of these things being in religion of some sort or another. Also to blame is the easy access to assault weapons and high-caliber guns and ammunition. The facts and statistics are there. All you have to do is compare the gun violence statistics of this nation to those of Japan or the UK. As Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan stated, "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion but not to his own facts."

 

[Lanmark]

How do you live with terrorism? With dignity, courage, strength, defiance and resistance. With better policing and better security. With education. By looking at and addressing some of the underlying causes which include poverty, discrimination and social injustice. Those are some places to start. We have a lot of work to do.

The fact is this: this shooter in Orlando today only just recently went out and bought the guns he used to kill all these people -- because he could. That is a fact.

There will always be terrorist attacks, but this one might have been prevented if the shooter hadn't been able to buy the damn guns! We should be looking at that. There is no need for such access to assault rifles. Tighter controls and better background checks need to be in place as well.

The logic of arming everyone with assault rifles doesn't make sense. If it did, it would also make sense for every Tom, Dick, Harry and Hamid to carry bazookas, personal sized nuclear weapons, vials of cyanide and ricin and on and on. That wouldn't make sense. Neither do all these guns.

Gun violence does NOT happen much more in most other western countries. Check your facts.

Give it up about your Oregon heroes. Few here, if any, share your sentiments, and you're not going to change the rest of our minds about them.

Last but not least, I wish you peace. I disagree with you, but I don't harbor ill will toward you.

 

[Lanmark]

Better policing is needed. I already stated that. That would include better policing on the part of the FBI. Still, the primary blame for this act rests squarely on the shoulders of the shooter. Does the FBI share some blame here? It's possible. I don't have all the facts. Does easy access to assault rifles share some blame here? I believe it does.

You're free to state your opinion. I'm sorry if that sounded like a command. It was a suggestion that you stop wasting your breath about those Oregon criminals. They are only freedom fighters and folk heroes in the eyes of anti-federalists. They are off-the-wall outlaws to the rest of us, but recruit away if you must.

 

[abax]

I think we're all quite upset as we should be at such
merciless killing, however, being unkind to each other
won't change anything. This is my kum-ba-ya moment
until we all calm down. Please don't take your anger and
frustration out on each other.

 

[Lanmark]

This is not the first massacre in history. It is not the last. It is a strong action meant to provoke a strong response. The anticipated response is anger, fear, and/or retaliation. The anticipated response is the desired response.

How will I respond?

This terrible act is being met with an outpouring of unity, resolve, strength and love within the gay community. This is the response which is the most powerful and lasting.

 

[NYEric]

Should not have been allowed to buy War machines, plain and simple.

 

[Ray]

Should not have been allowed to buy War machines, plain and simple.

BINGO!!!!!!

I have no problem with gun ownership, have won shooting awards, and was even in the NRA a long time ago, but no individual needs an assault weapon or one with full automatic capability.

Nor do I think that banning them would be a violation of anyone's constitutional rights.

 

[troy]

If guns were never invented nobody would kill each other.... hahaha

 

[orcoholic]

I have no problem with gun ownership, but no individual needs an assault weapon or one with full automatic capability.

Nor do I think that banning them would be a violation of anyone's constitutional rights.

100% agree.

Another way I think would stop some of the shooters is to not allow the news to publish the shooters picture, name, or anything else about them.

Some of these people may really be religious fanatics, but I think a lot of them just want to die and leave their pitiful lives behind. They want go out in a blaze of glory, be remembered, and don't have the guts to kill themselves.

 

[orcoholic]

I could not agree more.
Exactly my point. The FBI has laws at it's disposal that could have been used to prevent this person from easily purchasing firearms. When they investigated him for making death threats (at least twice) they could have and should have revoked his permit to carry a concealed weapon and flagged his name to prevent or at least delay gun purchases.

What laws do the FBI have at their disposal? Aren't gun purchasing rules dealt with at the state level?

What law could they use to revoke his permit to carry?
I thought permits to carry are also state laws. FBI are a national police force.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Sick of this kind of thing happening over and over, and some stupid media are busy talking about ISIS and terror.

Doesn't really matter what it is, whether it is terror, religion, psychopath full of hate, they gotta cut at the source.
Gun control is the only way, or this will happen again and again.

We talked about this in a different thread in the past and it is the same story.

As Mark pointed out and I have before, this kind of stuff does not happen in other civilized countries, sure it happened once in Norway, but nothing of this frequency as in U.S.

The reason is very simple and clear.
Nothing ever changes. The conservative politicians point to mental illness and terror, but so what?
Crazy and hateful people are everywhere and there are too many. Virtually impossible to control those.

Speaking of crazies, I happened to be near the Stonewall Inn area yesterday where there was a gathering regarding the Orlando massacre, and I saw this young black woman with three little children yelling these horrible things against gays. Typical things from go the hell to all of yall should die, lots of f bombs and on and on and on. It was just unthinkable what came out of her mouth!
I almost wanted to smack her in the mouth. It was obvious that this person wasn't just hateful, but she was definitely mental. I felt bad for her children having to grow up with a mother with a mouth and brain like that.
Imagine she had a gun! lol

If people can't have access to this kind of mass killing machine, this kind of mass killing just won't happen, at least not like this.
Remember that lots of other shootings at smaller scales are only covered in local papers. It is just terrible!

This is very American problem. They must fix this ****!!!!!