Looking for secret

[Rick]

Ok so I just went out and checked the EC of the insignes I have outside in the shadehouse.

Did you add gypsum to these guys like you were suggesting a few months back?

Calcium sulfate produces plenty of conductivity with very little biological consequence. Another way of looking at it is the toxicity of Calcium sulfate is a fraction of that for potassium salts. Or yet another way is that the soluble calcium from gypsum helps offset the antagonistic effects of excess K while increasing TDS.

 

[Stone]

Did you add gypsum to these guys like you were suggesting a few months back?

No not on these. (I use it on everything which gets osomocote for the Ca). I just used some of my home made fermented fert cakes (50/50 soya bean meal/blood and bone ). They are basically slow release organic feed. But they are high in Ca. The paphs get watered every single day like a bunch of cabbages with lots of water. I mean I really pour it on straight from the hose. I would guess they get 2 inches per day.
But I did add Gypsum ( for the S ) to all my other paphs this morning. I think that in my efforts reduce K a bit, I may have reduced S too much with the resulting rolled down edges and small leaf symtpoms. At least thats what I hope it is!!
No such problems with the insignes.

 

[keithrs]

Dodidoki- You may want to find some Alaskan humus. Mix it in with rootshield and your potting mix. Than every two to three weeks make a tea out of it. This is the only way to get a very diverse mix of microbes and keep them at high levels.

If you want to use the tea as a fertilizer then look into bountea products. I use them in the garden with great success. I highly recommend to stay away from "standard" fertilizers. They will kill the microbes in the soil.

 

[Rick]

I highly recommend to stay away from "standard" fertilizers. They will kill the microbes in the soil.

That's part of the point about TDS monitoring and control

 

[keithrs]

That's part of the point about TDS monitoring and control

Yes sir...

 

[Stone]

I highly recommend to stay away from "standard" fertilizers. They will kill the microbes in the soil.

That statement is simply not true. Probably spread by the ''Organic'' people trying to sell their products. Don't believe it! The correct, non toxic, consentration of ANY fertilizer will actually INCREASE populations of soil flora. Actinomycites, bacteria and fungi all need the same nutrients as any other organism and they will use it wherever it comes from as long as there is sufficient carbon present.

 

[keithrs]

That statement is simply not true. Probably spread by the ''Organic'' people trying to sell their products. Don't believe it! The correct, non toxic, consentration of ANY fertilizer will actually INCREASE populations of soil flora. Actinomycites, bacteria and fungi all need the same nutrients as any other organism and they will use it wherever it comes from as long as there is sufficient carbon present.

Stone... You win!

Read here

 

[Rick]

Nothing would grow with 20ppm salts. Certainly not a big leafy plant.

How about 80ppm!

I've had this Phrag longifolium (also found in the Country of Origin for Selenipedium species) since about 2005. It's in the same 8" pot full of hydroton balls that it came in, but recently the pot split and roots are pouring out of the side. The pot sits in a tray of water (when not being photographed), but normally it just sucks up the water every few days so I add enough to overflow the tray to flush, and wait till its all gone for the refill.

Longest leaves are about 20", and the plant has been in continuous bud/bloom for about 2 years now. You can see some moss growing on the balls (along with weeds) and roots are obviously healthy, plenty of new growth and virtually no leaf tip burn. This would probably count as a big leafy plant.

I thought the plant was awesome before K lite, but with reduced K the leaves are about 20% longer than before, and leaf tip burn was drastically reduced.

Yes it gets fed at about 50ppm N once a week (less in winter) which has a conductivity of 300 - 500 us/cm, but the top ups and flush are with water less than 50 us/cm. This morning the sump was empty (the day after fertilizing too) so I just added enough water to fill the sump without flushing. This evening I let all the dregs from the pot drip into the sump and the conductivity is 160us/cm.

So I think you can grow great plants from Ecuador without high TDS. Judging by the improvement in quality over the last 2 years it also looks like less is more.

 

[Ozpaph]

Stone...You should do some research. There are lots of info on this topic.

Read here

That article says nitrogen 'stimulates soil microbes'....

 

[Rick]

http://ufdcimages.uflib.ufl.edu/UF/E0/02/13/67/00001/stewart_s.pdf

This paper has a lot going for it from mychorizae, orchids, germination nutrients...

Ozpaph there's a lot in it about fungal germination of orchid seed to answer your previous questions.

 

[keithrs]

That article says nitrogen 'stimulates soil microbes'....

Ya... I lost that battle.....

 

[dodidoki]

Rick, you drive me crazy with ppm..... You wrote "50 ppm N". What do you mean?
Eg: if I use Ca(NO3)2 and solve it in water, how do you count ppm only to N?

 

[dodidoki]

I only ask it because watching your plants your theory works, I only would like to understand.

 

[keithrs]

Rick, you drive me crazy with ppm..... You wrote "50 ppm N". What do you mean?
Eg: if I use Ca(NO3)2 and solve it in water, how do you count ppm only to N?

PPM N stands for Parts Per Million of Nitrogen.

 

[dodidoki]

PPM N stands for Parts Per Million of Nitrogen.

Solved N does not exist. Only ions or polarized molecules. ( eg. NO3-, urea, NH4+).
That is why I don't understand "ppm for N".
Eg.: 50 ppm N = 50 ppm NO3-???
or 50 ppm N = 50 ppm NH4+???

 

[Rick]

Solved N does not exist. Only ions or polarized molecules. ( eg. NO3-, urea, NH4+).
That is why I don't understand "ppm for N".
Eg.: 50 ppm N = 50 ppm NO3-???
or 50 ppm N = 50 ppm NH4+???

You kind of understand based on above.

Because the molecule weight varies so much based on form of N the convention is just to express as the concentration of only the N and not the O3,H4....

In this case you don't have to compute from scratch since the measuring of most ferts for household use is based on a target N concentration.

For instance K lite and MSU should supply 100 ppm N at 1/2 tsp/gal (??? Anyone can jump in and correct if I'm off on this one). So 1/4tsp/gal should be about 50 ppm N

If you want to work from scratch, the NPK values are % by weight (of N, PO5, and KO).

So if the N is listed as 12 that means that every gram of solid fert contains 12% (120mg) of N. So 1 gram per liter of water should be 120ppm. Since a gallon is 3.785 L then 1 gram per gallon is ~32ppm.

I cant recall if a 1/2 teaspon of solid is roughly 4 grams of fert, but I think you can figure it out from there.

 

[NYEric]

I hate to ask but; how did this go from a question of biology to chemistry? I think we need to look at the actions and affects to our orchids on a wholistic level.

 

[Rick]

I hate to ask but; how did this go from a question of biology to chemistry? I think we need to look at the actions and affects to our orchids on a wholistic level.

Where's the boundary between chemistry and biology?

There's always this push pull of looking at things as a big black box, and then finding that inadequate because of the laundry list of variables, complexities, assumptions (due to fragmented data), and caveats.

So then we frequently tailspin into details that we can control. This is especially a problem with our hobby since most of the time we only have a couple of plants to try to test anything out on. How many Selenpedium are you aware of in culture?

I can hardly find any reliable habitat information. Anything wholistic would be total conjecture.

 

[Rick]

Rick, you drive me crazy with ppm..... You wrote "50 ppm N". What do you mean?
Eg: if I use Ca(NO3)2 and solve it in water, how do you count ppm only to N?

Just to drive Eric nuts.

the molecular weight of anyhydrous calnitrate is 164 and contains two N's of molar mass 14 (sum 28).

28/164 is about 17% N in this case, so 1 gram of anhydrous calnitrate contains about 170 mg/N. If you stuck it in a Liter of water that would be 170 mg/L or ppm.

If you really are using straight calnitrate you need to check if you are using the agricultural grade that has 4 waters of hydration and ammonia impurity. So the % N is actually lower to acount for that.

 

[dodidoki]

Just to drive Eric nuts.

the molecular weight of anyhydrous calnitrate is 164 and contains two N's of molar mass 14 (sum 28).

28/164 is about 17% N in this case, so 1 gram of anhydrous calnitrate contains about 170 mg/N. If you stuck it in a Liter of water that would be 170 mg/L or ppm.

If you really are using straight calnitrate you need to check if you are using the agricultural grade that has 4 waters of hydration and ammonia impurity. So the % N is actually lower to acount for that.

I will receive my EC/TDS meter on Thursday, I will see my fertilizers and will ask some questions, if it is not problem.