Is dolomite soluble

[keithrs]

For liquefied calcium, there are some products sold for reefkeepers that are essentially liquefied aragonite, I think brand names include Aragamilk and Araga-might. However, since these are intended for reefs, I have no idea of what their sodium content may be, or even if there is any sodium.

I'm looking to be cheap!

 

[Rick]

I'm going to try a organic k-lite program. So straight dechorinated tap + N + micros will do the job?

I posted a link to analysis of several different commercial organic products. The liquid kelp extract in dilute tap water would cover your description in spades.

Call your local health department to get a copy of the tap water analysis. It may be online.

It should have all the major ion and metals data you want.

 

[gonewild]

I'm looking to be cheap!

Then just throw on a handful of dolomite powder once in a while. Some of the powder will lodge around the roots or in the media and stay awhile for the plants to use it. That's cheap and seeing the powder on there you can at least feel like you are having results.

But remember things are cheap for a reason. Usually it is because they don't work as well as something else.

 

[Stone]

Might using K-Lite and Orchiata produce sufficient Ca/Mg for almost any
Paph.?

Definately. But all paphs need the same amount of Ca/Mg.

 

[Rick]

I have a table of solubility here. Make of it what you will!

Solubility in cold water (about 15C)(g/Litre)

Dolomite: 0.01
Calcium carbonate: (Limestone, calcite) 0.015
Calcium nitrate: 2660
Calcium Chloride: 350
Calcium hydroxide: 1.85
Calcium sulphate: (gypsum) 2.41
Magnesium carbonate: (magnasite) 0.11
Magnesium sulphate: 710

Thats MAXIMUM solubility so the finer the particles the quicker you'll reach these figures

Ok so started the experiment with 0.5g Epsoma pellets in 100ml RO water. That's 5 gr/L.
Since I'm not at work all I have is conductivity available right now, which is about 300 us/cm, which is roughly equivalent to about 150mg/L TDS. So something is there at > than 10mg/L.

Interesting thing in the above table is that dolomite is a mix of calcium and magnesium carbonates, which individually have higher solubility values than dolomite. You would think it would be some average of the two??

 

[gonewild]

Definately. But all paphs need the same amount of Ca/Mg.

All Paphs need the same amount of Ca/Mg?

 

[Ray]

I'm looking to be cheap!

Then you picked the WRONG hobby, dude!

 

[Rick]

Then you picked the WRONG hobby, dude!

Or the wrong country to practice itoke:

I'm sure most of the real cost is environmental control (heat/light/humidity). The feeding part is cheap.

If we lived in the country of origin that our babies come from then I bet it's pretty cheap for the locals.

At least Keith is in San Diego. Almost never gets to freezing, and normally sunny. A bit dry. You can probably do parvis outside year round!

 

[keithrs]

Then you picked the WRONG hobby, dude!

Orchids are not my only hobby! I build cars and do woodworking also! I have to spread the love.

 

[SlipperFan]

Orchids are not my only hobby! I build cars and do woodworking also! I have to spread the love.

None of those are cheap, either!!! oke:

 

[Stone]

Ok so started the experiment with 0.5g Epsoma pellets in 100ml RO water. That's 5 gr/L.
Since I'm not at work all I have is conductivity available right now, which is about 300 us/cm, which is roughly equivalent to about 150mg/L TDS. So something is there at > than 10mg/L.

Interesting thing in the above table is that dolomite is a mix of calcium and magnesium carbonates, which individually have higher solubility values than dolomite. You would think it would be some average of the two??[/

I guess it depends on the samples taken. Dolomite can vary quite a lot as far as Mg. content and so can Limestone--from very low to maybe 10%?? and Dolomite from 15 to 50% or something.
I have another list of the relative terms given to different lime rocks and at what Mg percentage limestone becomes dolomite.
I will try to find it.

 

[Stone]

All Paphs need the same amount of Ca/Mg?

I think when its all said and done most paphs if not most orchids if not most of the vegetable kingdom needs roughly the same amount of Calcium as well as all other nutrients. Certainly they can all find enough Ca in the ferts and mixes and water etc which we give them to satisfy their needs.
There may be very slight variations but I haven't seen any data to show it. Only speculation. I'm sure the leaf samples taken from a wild kovachii, a wild niveum and a wild venustum or lowii in a tree would be the same. (more or less) I have had orchids which for some reason or other have not been fed for years and yet they still find enough Ca. to keep growing.
Its all in the balance I think. Hi level of ALL nutrients or low level of ALL nutrients (all in the correct balance of course) and the plants are happy.

 

[Rick]

I guess it depends on the samples taken. Dolomite can vary quite a lot as far as Mg. content and so can Limestone--from very low to maybe 10%?? and Dolomite from 15 to 50% or something.
I have another list of the relative terms given to different lime rocks and at what Mg percentage limestone becomes dolomite.
I will try to find it.

Yup, The Epsoma Ca/Mg percentages are on the bag. It's not a 50/50 mix (by memory) but its too cold and too late to walk out to the GH to check.

 

[Rick]

There may be very slight variations but I haven't seen any data to show it. I'm sure the leaf samples taken from a wild kovachii, a wild niveum and a wild venustum or lowii in a tree would be the same. (more or less) I have had orchids which for some reason or other have not been fed for years and yet they still find enough Ca. to keep growing.

Actually you supplied some pretty nice data one time Mike. It was a paper on Panamanian leaf tissue data. Had orchids and non orchids. Most plants really were about the same except those tended by ants (those had high amounts of K in tissue).

There tends to be a lot more Ca floating through the environment than most other minerals.

In general living organisms (including plants) tend to reflect the relative commonality of elements in the environment both in what they need and what causes toxicity. "Too much and too little" pretty much tracks how much of it is in the environment. There are exceptions, especially in consideration of domesticated plants and animals with environments and purposes created by humanity (or ants!). Often the outliers are able to live in systems out of balance.

 

[NYEric]

Yup, The Epsoma Ca/Mg percentages are on the bag. It's not a 50/50 mix (by memory) but its too cold and too late to walk out to the GH to check.

What about the bag in the bathrooom! oke:

BTW, in answer to the original post, everything is soluable in a large enough solution.

 

[Rick]

Ok

Took my 5g/L solution of Epsoma Garden Lime into the lab.

conductivity = 270 us/cm
pH = 9.72
Alkalinity 440 mg/L as CaCO3
Hardness = 123 mg/L as CaCO3

The bag says its 21% Ca and 10% Mg

So with that hardness you can back calculate to 27 mg/L of Ca and 13mg/L of Mg.

For comparison Nashville tap water has a hardness of 100 and alkalinity of 50 conductivity around 200. Ca of 25 and Mg of 9 mg/L.

So if you are going cheap, I'd just use dechlorinated tap water.

 

[keithrs]

That's interesting....

Did it all dissolve?

Here is my water quality report....

June water quality

 

[Rick]

That's interesting....

Did it all dissolve?

Here is my water quality report....

June water quality

No there's still fine solids.

Looks like a 50% dilution of your tap water with RO or rain water will produce something very similar to what you get with the Epsoma pellets (except reduced alkalinity).

Also a 50% dilution would put this on par with Nashville tap water.

 

[keithrs]

No there's still fine solids.

Looks like a 50% dilution of your tap water with RO or rain water will produce something very similar to what you get with the Epsoma pellets (except reduced alkalinity).

Also a 50% dilution would put this on par with Nashville tap water.

That's what I was thinking too! I had added back 10% tap and my plants didn't show any response. Probably because I fertilize @ every watering and they got all they needed from it.

It seems to me that instead of adding cal/mag supplements, those that have semi hard to hard tap water would be better off using well water instead.... But I guess at would only work if you grow plant that where not sensitive to high TDS water.

 

[Rick]

That's what I was thinking too! I had added back 10% tap and my plants didn't show any response. Probably because I fertilize @ every watering and they got all they needed from it.

It seems to me that instead of adding cal/mag supplements, those that have semi hard to hard tap water would be better off using well water instead.... But I guess at would only work if you grow plant that where not sensitive to high TDS water.

My well water is 2-3 times harder than your tap water. So I dilute it about 10:1 with RO

Your fert mix (MSU or K lite) already has higher hardness than your 10% tap water. So yes probably didn't even see the difference. But unless you try to run higher levels of K or need to offset a high alkalinity with a more ammonia based fert, I can't see getting much advantage out of running more Ca/Mg.

From looking at the analysis of the liquid kelp product I posted a ways back, you could just use that in RO or diluted tap water and everything would be happy.