If they only knew the truth it would bring some people to their knees. I continuously tell AOS judges that in order to get a species cattleya that is awardable, EXPECT to spend $1500 to $3000 for a plant. This year, I paid $800 for half a plant, and was happy to.
Is $700 a year on orchids a lot?
- Thread starter Nelson Wong
- Start date
Help Support Slippertalk Orchid Forum:
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2022
- Messages
- 1,085
- Reaction score
- 816
Well honestly that might work and if that is what you feel then by all means, go for it.
So much of this depends upon which species you want to talk about. A species
like Cattleya purpurata that possibly has over 200 flower quality awards, ( I have no idea of the actual # as I write this), will be a bit harder to get awarded then a species with 10 flower quality awards. Why? Because in the case of purpurata, there is a certain set of standards that have been achieved with all of these awards. Do we as judges look at every single award during our discussion? No of course not! But we may look at the last 4-6 awards, or maybe even the last 10 or 12 awards. That would form a nice recent platform to compare the candidate plant before us to. (We do not judge in a vacuum) we do not treat a candidate plant as if there are no awards to that species.
Following that a little deeper, again without records in front of me, an alba form or a coerulea form might be a bit easier to get awarded.
Personally, I would have to be bonkers to spend that much on any plant. But if you are fine with spending that much money, I am happy for you. I would be afraid that the plant would die.
A $50 Timex watch keeps just as good time as a $30,000 Rolex. Or more.
The least amount I ever spent on a plant that got an award was a $3 Perreiraara Luke Thai!!! I got it at J&L years ago off of a summer’s sales table. $3!!!!
I have also spent $150 on a NBS Cattleya hybrid, and it quickly died!! It is all relative.
By spending 1-$3,000 on a plant, does that alone guarantee anything other then being $3,000 poorer?? Just my opinion.
So much of this depends upon which species you want to talk about. A species
like Cattleya purpurata that possibly has over 200 flower quality awards, ( I have no idea of the actual # as I write this), will be a bit harder to get awarded then a species with 10 flower quality awards. Why? Because in the case of purpurata, there is a certain set of standards that have been achieved with all of these awards. Do we as judges look at every single award during our discussion? No of course not! But we may look at the last 4-6 awards, or maybe even the last 10 or 12 awards. That would form a nice recent platform to compare the candidate plant before us to. (We do not judge in a vacuum) we do not treat a candidate plant as if there are no awards to that species.
Following that a little deeper, again without records in front of me, an alba form or a coerulea form might be a bit easier to get awarded.
Personally, I would have to be bonkers to spend that much on any plant. But if you are fine with spending that much money, I am happy for you. I would be afraid that the plant would die.
A $50 Timex watch keeps just as good time as a $30,000 Rolex. Or more.
The least amount I ever spent on a plant that got an award was a $3 Perreiraara Luke Thai!!! I got it at J&L years ago off of a summer’s sales table. $3!!!!
I have also spent $150 on a NBS Cattleya hybrid, and it quickly died!! It is all relative.
By spending 1-$3,000 on a plant, does that alone guarantee anything other then being $3,000 poorer?? Just my opinion.
I think the real answer is how obsessed you are in this hobby AND if you have a limit lol.
I am neck deep in my obsession and my limit escaped me 15 years ago.
So DavidB shakes his head when he sees my new acquisitions lol.
I am neck deep in my obsession and my limit escaped me 15 years ago.
So DavidB shakes his head when he sees my new acquisitions lol.
And so now for the rest of the story. As a judge that has been attending shows for the last 25 years, and has seen exhibitors put their hard earned $ and heart and soul into growing their plants, I believe that owners of quality plants owe to orchidists as a whole an attempt to contribute to the availability of quality stock. Hopefully at affordable levels. As a result of this, at the age of 73 I have made pods on the below cattleya species, 2 of which are already in flask. Please take note, all plants are awarded or crossed with awarded like species. This is not being done for profit or business reasons, neither I or Dr.Leslie Ee need additional income, we are both quite comfortable. As I have said before, if I break even that would be fine. Hopefully we can actually make a contribution, wish us luck.
Attachments
That would mean that an award on a species Catt is out of reach for the average grower. Why would the system be set up to exclude the majority of growers. And why catts? I have an 79 pt. HCC on a Paph delenatii (3N) (Pink Lady x Deerwood AM/AOS 4N) that also won best Paph species at the Paph Forum the first year I attended. I had no idea it was awardable at that point and just brought what I had blooming. A second bloom seedling from Orchids Ltd. I got for $100.
It's not that the system is set up to exclude anyone, more that in plants with an extensive award history the standard is very high. I would imagine buying an award quality species Catt is like buying an award quality roths, you're going to pay dearly because they are few and far between. The alternative of course is to play the seedling lottery: buy a bunch of seedling from quality parents, spend a few years growing them out, and hope that when they bloom they are really what you bought them as and that you get something good enough to put on the judging table. Either way the final cost per awarded plant will be similar, I know I wouldn't consider parting with any of my awarded plants for less than four figures if I could be convinced to sell them at all.
So there are choices. Just imagine that you travel to Colombia (trianae), Costa Rica (skinneri), Brazil (lueddemanniana), Venezuela (mossiae), Tokyo (coccinea), and approach the best breeders in the country and try to buy stud plant divisions or a flask or compot from their best breeding plants. That $$$$ price may seem high, but if you were the seller what would you charge. Oh, or perhaps one of the slippertalk contributors is already doing this and at some point divisions, flasks or compots of quality plants become available. I would not want to miss that opportunity.
Attachments
Last edited:
The issue is what your trained or untrained eyes view and regard what is a good flower. If it matches the awarded ones, and you want those, highly likely the owner/seller will have the same thoughts, and price accordingly.
Personally I’ve seen thousands of cattleya species pass through my eyes and I can spot a great one in a sea of hundreds of the same species. That one I choose will likely be around the 4 figures, unless the seller is not aware of the quality,
Without doubt, it is possible to grow a seedling up to get an award. But it will be a 1:1000 or 1:10000 odds.
When SouthernBelle got the delenatii award, she bloomed one that was superior in form from a batch of likely 500-1000 plants that were not awardable. It was a lottery plant.
Personally I’ve seen thousands of cattleya species pass through my eyes and I can spot a great one in a sea of hundreds of the same species. That one I choose will likely be around the 4 figures, unless the seller is not aware of the quality,
Without doubt, it is possible to grow a seedling up to get an award. But it will be a 1:1000 or 1:10000 odds.
When SouthernBelle got the delenatii award, she bloomed one that was superior in form from a batch of likely 500-1000 plants that were not awardable. It was a lottery plant.
The lottery has been good to me, both of my FCCs and one AM were from seedlings I grew out, the other AMs were first bloomers I selected from shows or online sales and rebloomed. The FCCs were both recent hybrids with only a handful of awards to the grex though, not something with 100+ years of award history and line breeding like Cattleya species.
Yes those were lottery winners that had good parents and breeding line of good parents. It’s not very common for those statistics. You got a silver spoon. Also you are a fantastic grower. That helps.
For cattleya species with awards from 50 plus years, it’s very competitive. I have so many plants passed and maybe awarded after 3 times (each year getting stronger and bigger), even the expensive selected ones with great shape and color. It’s always a sweating palm moment when it goes on the judging table lol.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2015
- Messages
- 420
- Reaction score
- 220
I'm offering a nut for one of your adductums.
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2015
- Messages
- 420
- Reaction score
- 220
Really? I thought you had at least one by now.I have two nuts already and no adductum
Other Tony wouldn't give up the goods.
Well thanks to you and some other bad influences here and on Facebook the Cattleya bug finally got its claws into me. We have some super knowledgable Catt people at my judging center so I'm looking forward to their feedback when I start submitting plants.
I am the Cattleya Influencer now lol.
There are a lot of variables on the trail to awards.
Good genes is a big factor.
Good culture is almost as important ( a great plant with mediocre culture…..) flower presentation, habit and arrangement etc.
Timing: weather, freshness,
Luck.
I personally like the seedling lottery, and have been lucky a few times but what I like most is seeing “ new “ or “remade” attempts emerge. If they don’t work out they are great to pass along.
Good genes is a big factor.
Good culture is almost as important ( a great plant with mediocre culture…..) flower presentation, habit and arrangement etc.
Timing: weather, freshness,
Luck.
I personally like the seedling lottery, and have been lucky a few times but what I like most is seeing “ new “ or “remade” attempts emerge. If they don’t work out they are great to pass along.
Leslie, when I got this I went on Jerry’s recommendation and description on his website. I felt it was worth the $100 price. When I called him and told him about the award, he commented that several of these had been award quality. Here is the link from his website.
https://www.orchidweb.com/orchids/p...h-delenatii-3n-pink-lady-x-deerwood-am-aos-4n
That is indeed a good line of ‘potential’ award quality flowers. Jerry has increased odds by using very selected parentage.
Now how many will actually get an award is the question. Like Tom mentioned above, the perfect storm of all those points and above all ‘luck’ is required.
Yep! But in some cases, you increase your chances for luck…. I asked Hadley Cash, after a Paph presentation (where he showed incredible new things for the first time), what he had on his sales table that that he’d shown a photo of in his presentation. I got the last seedling he had of Paph (Alex Szabo ‘Pure Gold’ x Hsinying Gold ‘Monarch’). He told me Harold Koopowitz had visited his greenhouse and suggested he cross those two plants! Well, that was a no brainer!! So my seedling is the one Hadley said is a solid AM on its first bloom! And when I sent him the pollen, he used it and registered the cross as Sunlight Serenade. I had to name my plant for him to use the pollen. I named it ‘Elation’ because I didn’t know much at that point, (and still only know a bit more) but when I saw the flower, I knew it was special. So certain breeders use exceptional parents and that definitely increases your odds, but there still is an element of ‘crap shoot’ with seedlings.
I have one of Hadley’s remakes of Paph Austin Cash. Probably another year from blooming and I almost killed it and had to rehab it, but I eagerly anticipate it’s first bloom. Patience!!!
Funny thing is, I’m not a gambler and hate that type of thing, can’t stand Las Vegas. But on a bet with those odds, I’ll jump.
