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Help, please. Does this look bacterial? Or what is it??

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southernbelle

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At first I thought this was caused by too much light, but now am concerned it's bacterial or something else. Anyone have any ideas?

First photo is top of leaves, other two are underside of leavesE06A7D32-E3CB-48D9-A44F-50A20CF795E5_1_201_a.jpeg11DBCEE5-2329-47ED-BCC3-5C100B015CBA.jpegABC37950-3E20-45C6-91F7-916A70C7558D.jpeg
 

Ozpaph

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I doubt its bacterial. I wonder if the plant has virus. Its not light damage.
The last photo is out of focus. Can you re-take?
 

southernbelle

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Thanks for your suggestions, Ozpaph. I virus tested and it does look like a virus (CMV) which would be unlikely considering the quality of the plant and the source. My virus test was 1 month expired, and I had a very faint control line so I’ve ordered more tests and will test again. Am working on getting a better photo, stand by.
 

southernbelle

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Hmmm. What is interesting, is this is the second bi-foliate in a couple of weeks to develop this (gradually, to the point of concern). Unfortunately, the first was not a strong or special plant, so rather than deal with it, I trashed it. Now I really wish I hadn’t as I could have tested it too. I have isolated this plant and will try to get better photos. Thx.
 

PeteM

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Might have to do with the recent temperature drops we have had. Probably a fungus or bacteria I have such a difficult time telling them apart.. Those test strips seem to last for me past the expiration date, 2 months is not that long in the fridge, but it's also a good idea to try again. In the mean time, whats the harm in quickly treating with Physan20 and Cleary's 3336. A small application from a spray bottle on this and surrounding plants might keep this from spreading further if it is making its way across the collection.. while you wait for the test strips.
 

Teresa Koncolor

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Curious to see what your repeat test shows.
I've been testing my orchids and found some healthy looking ones positive. Some that were mature plants and having trouble clearing a fungal infection were positive. Some that are sickly were negative and didn't give me an added excuse to toss them.
 

southernbelle

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Curious to see what your repeat test shows.
I've been testing my orchids and found some healthy looking ones positive. Some that were mature plants and having trouble clearing a fungal infection were positive. Some that are sickly were negative and didn't give me an added excuse to toss them.
Will retest and report as soon as kit arrived from Agdia.
 

southernbelle

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Well, unfortunately, Werner and Ozpaph, you are right. I re-tested today. Unexpired test has bold lines showing CymMV.
This is a seedling from 2017 that is finally growing well, Cattleya Olenus (4N) (adlandiae (4N) x loddigesii var. harrisoniae 'Streeters Choice' FCC/AOS (4N).
I'd really like to see the flowers, but I guess the odds are they will not look great on a virused plant... Should I discard it, or just be very careful not to infect other plants. I always pot on paper, use TSP to disinfect tools/pots between plants, and clean the work area with peroxide cleaner. Bummer.
 

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PeteM

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Ughh. Breaks the heart. Especially after all that growing.. Good eye Werner and Ozpaph. It’s amazing how a seedling could get a virus, especially since you take all the precautions. I’m in the middle of testing my entire collection too, started with the newest plants. I try for every 3 years.

All kinds of decisions to make. If the plant had some historic significance, that would be the only reason I would think about keeping it. Even then I would probably rehome it to someone who collected virused plants. I personally throw virused plants out. Too much risk to the collection and risk of passing virus on to others.
 
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PeteM

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Do you also burn your cutting tools? I use this, in addition to a spray bottle of alcohol to clean tools before I burn and rack them to cool. Mapp burns hotter and faster than propane and bottle are inexpensive online or Home Depot.

 

SouthPark

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southernebelle - if you are worried (even a little bit) ----- if ----- then I wouldn't worry about it.

Viruses are everywhere - just like bacteria. And we humans are like virus/bacteria populating and decimating - messing up the planet (body).

As a home grower - I don't test for virus - and never have tested. I will just take things as they come - naturally. But very nicely or fortunately, I have never had colour breaks or orchids taking a bad turn (for more than a few decades of home growing now) - which has been great.

I do make back-ups of certain orchids that I want to 'back-up' ----- (division where possible) ---- just to put eggs in different baskets -- regardless ------ regardless of what the situation is.
 

Ozpaph

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you should burn the plant and test any others that look 'unwell'. Keeping virused plants is a road to unhappiness. Eventually you will regret the decision to keep them and people wont want your plants because they 'could be infected'.
 

southernbelle

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Do you also burn your cutting tools? I use this, in addition to a spray bottle of alcohol to clean tools before I burn and rack them to cool. Mapp burns hotter and faster than propane and bottle are inexpensive online or Home Depot.

Pete, interesting that you would mention burning with MAPP. After listening to Keith Davis who recommends this at our VOS meeting last year, I bought a MAPP bottle. I used it once. I did not like the way it discolored the clipper and from what I've read dulls the cutting edge pretty quickly. It's sitting in my basement almost brand new.
Ughh. Breaks the heart. Especially after all that growing.. Good eye Werner and Ozpaph. It’s amazing how a seedling could get a virus, especially since you take all the precautions. I’m in the middle of testing my entire collection too, started with the newest plants. I try for every 3 years.

All kinds of decisions to make. If the plant had some historic significance, that would be the only reason I would think about keeping it. Even then I would probably rehome it to someone who collected virused plants. I personally throw virused plants out. Too much risk to the collection and risk of passing virus on to others.
Well, it didn't take me long, within about 10 minutes, I decided to trash the plant. In it's own plastic bag in the outside garbage. 😢 Sometimes, you just have to cut your losses.
 

southernbelle

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southernebelle - if you are worried (even a little bit) ----- if ----- then I wouldn't worry about it.

Viruses are everywhere - just like bacteria. And we humans are like virus/bacteria populating and decimating - messing up the planet (body).

As a home grower - I don't test for virus - and never have tested. I will just take things as they come - naturally. But very nicely or fortunately, I have never had colour breaks or orchids taking a bad turn (for more than a few decades of home growing now) - which has been great.

I do make back-ups of certain orchids that I want to 'back-up' ----- (division where possible) ---- just to put eggs in different baskets -- regardless ------ regardless of what the situation is.
Interesting perspective. I first tested for virus in a Toshie Aoki 'Pizazz' that had a horrible, very blurred, color pattern. Very different than the plant I saw and ordered. I gave it a couple of bloomings, then tested. Yep, it was virused. Then I had another with weird rings on the flower. Yep virused. I've not had leaf issues show virus before, especially this type of spotting. So it surprised me. Not worth the risk for me to keep the plant. It was not expensive as a seedling. I cannot risk other more valuable plants getting infected. It's already gone.
 

southernbelle

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you should burn the plant and test any others that look 'unwell'. Keeping virused plants is a road to unhappiness. Eventually you will regret the decision to keep them and people wont want your plants because they 'could be infected'.
Thanks, Ozpaph. It's already gone.k I will carefully look at any others and test if needed, but don't think there are any more. And, I will continue my diligence with disinfecting.
 
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SouthPark

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Yep virused. I've not had leaf issues show virus before, especially this type of spotting. So it surprised me. Not worth the risk for me to keep the plant. It was not expensive as a seedling. I cannot risk other more valuable plants getting infected. It's already gone.
I think that plant viruses do it real tough too. They probably have a hard time surviving as well. In my under-the-balcony growing area, I just follow what some other growers recommended ...... eg. to not splash water, and not re-use water for watering, and not allow one orchid's sap or juice etc to get from one orchid to another, and use sterile cutting tools etc.

A lot of us growers, including you and everybody here at this forum (and other forums - and everywhere around the world) grow very nice orchids ...... some or many of them being hard to acquire (even if one wanted to get one or buy one --------- hard to find etc). Some are so meaningful or important to a grower - that the orchid may be 'priceless' (as in money does not even count).

If bugs and stuff are in the area, and the orchids are not growing in a place that keeps the orchids completely free of bugs/ants bitey things etc ....... then can always be uncertainty about a plant having a virus in it or not.

'Natural selection' (cliche ---- but we've all heard of it) ------ sort of suggest that no matter what the viruses do, at least some orchids will be immune to particular ones ..... so the orchid family will still keep going ---- as long as the planet (earth) etc remains hospitable for orchids and other living things.

One way to try help avoid a particular orchid from getting put out of action by virus or something else is to make those back-ups. Just as we should back up our treasured data files - digital photos, emails, family videos etc. Even hard-copies should be backed up ----- eg. scanned, transferred to digital, then spread the eggs out into different baskets. Things don't need to end in tears.

SB ----- testing for virus is indeed done by a lot of people for sure. I think for home growers, I just tell them not to stress about uncertainty about virus ....... and just apply growing practices in the growing area that makes it tough for the virus to transfer by fluids from 1 plant to another. Growing orchids should be for stress-relief and relaxation hehe. Always wondering and always testing just takes away some enjoyment I reckon. But each grower has their own approach to growing orchids. It's nice to see and hear how other people look at things. Nice thread.
 
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Teresa Koncolor

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Ughh. Breaks the heart. Especially after all that growing.. Good eye Werner and Ozpaph. It’s amazing how a seedling could get a virus, especially since you take all the precautions. I’m in the middle of testing my entire collection too, started with the newest plants. I try for every 3 years.

All kinds of decisions to make. If the plant had some historic significance, that would be the only reason I would think about keeping it. Even then I would probably rehome it to someone who collected virused plants. I personally throw virused plants out. Too much risk to the collection and risk of passing virus on to others.
You test plants every three years? Even if you test new plants before bringing them into general population? Do you have new positives? Where do you think the infection comes from if new plants are virus free?
 

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