Helenae delicatum

[Roth]

That's what the people call helenae delicatum, from Tuyen Quang. The local name is the same as what they use for coccineum (hai tim). They can be more or less pinkish.



wild flower on a wild plant...

The plants cannot be told apart from normal helenae ( and I think it is just a local color variation anyway). They are however definitely not hybrids.

In Vietnam, there are many collectors for henryanum, coccineum ( the two or three types), and helenae. Many times too, one collector is cheaper than the others, and successfully sells his batch by kilo. The others batches just die at his competitor's place. However, looking at the leaves, there are many strange batches of plants, and most likely unknown variants of some species. Some of them we will most likely never see in cultivation. That batch of helenae 'delicatum' was 23 kg, and there is no more coming apparently.

 

[quietaustralian]

Any chance you have a pic of a better bloom? I have quite a few helenae with red pouches and most are from Tuyen Quang. I'm still not convinced but I'll keep an open mind about it.

Mick

 

[SlipperFan]

Is it fully open???

 

[quietaustralian]

I came in from the garden yesterday and saw helenae delicatum on my screen and thought woohoo, Roth has found delicatum. Xavier, I'm a little disappointed. Give it one of those German clonal names and see how it develops.

Regards, Mick

 

[Roth]

I came in from the garden yesterday and saw helenae delicatum on my screen and thought woohoo, Roth has found delicatum. Xavier, I'm a little disappointed. Give it one of those German clonal names and see how it develops.

Regards, Mick

Ubnfortunately I am sure that's the Tuyen Quang plants for what people call 'delicatum'. They are darker reddish/brownish than the original helenae, but that's all and not more. It is very deceiving in a way, because the fake photo of delicatum showed a pink gorgeous flower that exists nowhere.

Look at the original picture of Delicatum:

It is a Tuyen Quang muddy brown-reddish flower type.

Then, an ******* photoshopped the photos here to make the flowers different and more impressive. But that's the same specimen as the whole plant photo as it is easy to see:

That reminds me when a very famous orchidist in the USA photoshopped a picture of a normal emersonii to make the 'luteum' variety. He sold a division eventually to Germany, which turned out to be a fake, and some months later by mistake he released the non-photoshopped photo of the same flower...

 

[quietaustralian]

Many things in the description http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7557 (see also the last page of description that I added to thread) don't ring true. Most noticeably the pouch in the drawing doesn't match the actual flower. Yes, you are right, the first pic shows a common colour form of helenae.

Regards, Mick

 

[Roth]

Many things in the description http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7557 (see also the last page of description that I added to thread) don't ring true. Most noticeably the pouch in the drawing doesn't match the actual flower. Yes, you are right, the first pic shows a common colour form of helenae.

Regards, Mick

The second pic as well... it is the same flower on the same plant, different view, and photoshopped heavily for the second one.

We cannot trust the description, because the photo is the photo of the type. so from that first picture, they made the drawing and description, heavily artworked. They could not photoshop the whole plant picture, hoped that no one would see the difference, because if they did photoshop the whole plant picture it would have looked like a Martian attack...

The Chinese redescribed as well Paphiopedilum purpuratum, wardii, micranthum and a couple of other things, with unusual pictures and drawing, and funny names. In fact the Chinese described that thing as a new species, along with Paph quibeiense, guangdongense, and a couple of other crazy names. It has financial purpose too, to sell to Taiwan new species or forms... ( something one of the authors is used to for many years...).


I just handled photoshop a little bit, to make the second photo match the first one. As one can see from the dorsal, the veins, the bract, it is very clear that the second photo is the same plant as the first one, so I adjusted the colors to match the first photo. That delicatum starts to look far, far, far less dramatic...




Just for fun, the emersonii luteum submitted for publication, dramatic amazing flower:

When sending an email once the 'proud owner' included a half way photoshopped picture once:

There is another image, with color on the staminodium and dots in the pouch ( we can guess the dots in the pouch on the white version of the photo actually), I have to browse my emails, as I got that one too...

OOUPS... I think helenae delicatum can join the club with emersonii luteum of the photoshop-born species...

 

[quietaustralian]

This would be the most common colour helenae I've seen in Tuyen Quang and this is definitely from Tuyen Quang as I was there when the guy was collecting them.

The pouch in the two photos from the description looks different, maybe its just the angle as you said.


Regards, Mick

 

[Roth]

This would be the most common colour helenae I've seen in Tuyen Quang and this is definitely from Tuyen Quang as I was there when the guy was collecting them.

The pouch in the two photos from the description looks different, maybe its just the angle as you said.


Regards, Mick

Not only the pouch, look at the bract at the base of the ovary, it is the same on both photos... The pouch has the same striping too, and the slight twist on the dorsal is the same, the petals have the same angle.... It is the same plant clearly, and just another photoshop story...