Dendrobium moniliforme 'Sankanou'

[mrhappyrotter]

Dendrobium moniliforme 'Sankanou'

I got this from New World Orchids several years ago. It's been a faithful bloomer, even when it was grown indoors year round. This past year I decided to give it a try in the greenhouse over winter since everything I'd read suggested these are quite cold hardy. It did well.

I think NWO suggested that this is actually a hybrid, and not necessarily a pure D. moniliforme. I like it, though. Pretty foliage even when it is not in bloom and gorgeous, interesting flowers.

Although I've bloomed this thing several times before, I've never noticed a fragrance on the blooms until today. Perhaps the magic ingredient is natural sunlight instead of LED. It's a pleasant, stereotypical floral scent. Faint, though, at least so far.

Anybody have any suggestions for varieties that are highly fragrant? This one's a keeper for now, but I'd love to find a pure D. moniliforme that's noticeably fragrant if such a thing exists.

 

[Ozpaph]

lovely.

 

[Linus_Cello]

I’ll have to sniff my D. mon. one warm sunny morning. (Would love a division.)

 

[Heather]

Pretty! I got a moniliforme recently from Satomi but I’m not sure I’m handling it right…any tips?

 

[Linus_Cello]

Pretty! I got a moniliforme recently from Satomi but I’m not sure I’m handling it right…any tips?

How are you growing it? I think mounted is the best way. Good air circulation.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

Pretty! I got a moniliforme recently from Satomi but I’m not sure I’m handling it right…any tips?

Hopefully I don't come to regret saying this, but so far this has been an undemanding plant.

I've grown and bloomed it indoors under LED shoplights and standard indoor temperatures. The only thing I did to induce blooms was to cut way back on watering around October. I'm sure my indoor temps are a bit cooler in winter, but nothing terribly extreme. The plant came potted in sphagnum, and I continued growing it that way until last year.

Last year, however, it received very different care. First, I mounted it as you can see from the photos. It hasn't firmly attached itself yet, but I'm sure I was behind and probably mounted a bit late for the new growths to really grow into it. The greenhouse is covered in 60% shade cloth, so the light is like bright shade, not terribly intense, and the mount faces away from direct sun. As for temperatures, the plant has experienced extremes. It handled high summer heat as well as near freezing temperatures in winter. Since it's mounted now and since it was experiencing colder temps than prior years, I did keep it a bit drier over winter this past year than previously.

I'm not sure how demanding it is in terms of winter rest, but it seems like reducing water somewhat (but not entirely) is sufficient and that significant drops in temperatures aren't quite as important as other similar species, but that's just a guess.

 

[Heather]

Thanks. I have it in bark in a pot that may be too big… don’t have a good place for mounts to ensure humidity. Think I should move it to sphag? I’m not sure I’m watering the right amount…not worried about temps. I do well with the Japanese orchids in the winter generally and can put them outside here. More the medium and watering I’m worried about. Thank you!!

 

[Jmoney]

moss mound? I have a couple. mounded like neos. they will never bloom under my conditions but I'm growing them for the variegated leaves anyway...

 

[alecStewart1]

Dendrobium moniliforme 'Sankanou' 三冠王 is technically a hybrid. From Flora Pelicula:

It is a gorgeous variety. It is a cross between Kibana sekkoku (Dendrobium officiale) x Dendrobium moniliforme “hakuro”. Dendrobium moniliforme hakuro is a white flower, green centre (considered as an 'alba'). Leaves: white marginal variegation. Sankanou has wonderful variegation and a flower with a red centre and greenish outline.

What a lot of people in the US will say is that the flower being not purely white is what gives it away that it's a hybrid of sorts. Granted there's not nearly as much information on choseiran as there is fuukiran in English, so it's hard to find out unless you know a grower in Japan or Korea, or can read Japanese and/Korean and can find literature on these plants. For example, I know that there is a meikan for choseiran, but I can never find it and even if I did, I can't read Japanese.
There's a few pink flowered varieties that I honestly have no idea if they are hybrids, or if Den. moniliforme has the genetic potential to produce pink flowers. It's kind of shame because I do find them interesting, and part of me always wants to get the unique varieties I see Satomi from Seed Engei put up on ebay because I don't see a ton of people betting on them (unless it's a very well-known variety).

Anyway, for 'Sankanou' the character 三 "san" is "three", if you could believe it after looking at the character. 冠 is "crown" and 王 is like "king" or "prince", but apparently 冠王 is something like "crown(ed) king". So all together 三冠王 is something like "three times/triple crown king". This is all from looking around online, don't ask me to try and read Japanese. How this relates to the variety, I have no idea. It could refer to the variety has

- yellow canes
- variegated leaves
- unique flower

Or

- bigger flower
- different colored petals
- red throat

But I can't really say for sure. Some plants get named after sumo wrestlers or sumo wrestling terms, so I can't say I fully understand the naming schemes the Japanese use.

EDIT:

Another thing that I'm not 100% sure on, but I believe choseiran as a category isn't exclusive to just Den. moniliforme. Variegated Den. Ise (Dendrobium moniliforme × Dendrobium officinale) forms get lumped into this category sometimes, mini and variegated forms of Den. kingianum that Koreans mostly seem to produce get grouped in, and variegated Den. hancockii as well. Again, I'm not 100% sure, but from listings online this seems to be the case.

 

[alecStewart1]

Thanks. I have it in bark in a pot that may be too big… don’t have a good place for mounts to ensure humidity. Think I should move it to sphag? I’m not sure I’m watering the right amount…not worried about temps. I do well with the Japanese orchids in the winter generally and can put them outside here. More the medium and watering I’m worried about. Thank you!!

It's up to you. Growing in moss for all orchids grown in Japan is as much for the aesthetics as it is a "tactical" choice. The mounds look neat, and moss does a good job of spreading and retaining moisture. The only thing you have to be mindful of is

1. Do not overwater in the colder seasons. They can handle staying dry for quite some time, maybe 2 weeks depending on humidity.
2. Do not fertilize in the cold seasons. They won't get upset about it, but they'll just make keikis instead of flowers in spring. (I made this mistake with mine.)
3. Water whenever their medium dries out in the warmer seaons. This won't be as often with moss mounds.
4. Mounting or potting in orchid bark works great too, and let's you be able to water them more frequently.
5. Fertilize in the warmer seasons like you would other orchids.

That's kind of it. They're pretty tough cookies. Keep in mind it's said that the varieties with colored flowers can't take frost as well as varieties with pure white flowers. I don't know if that's because all colored flower varieties are hybrids, or it's just how the plants are genetically.

 

[alecStewart1]

Anybody have any suggestions for varieties that are highly fragrant? This one's a keeper for now, but I'd love to find a pure D. moniliforme that's noticeably fragrant if such a thing exists.

I could ask a couple people, maybe Satomi from Seed Engei might know. I know choseiran are grown more for the aesthetic than they are fragrance. You're not going to get something like fuukiran where the fragrance is noticeable.

 

[Heather]

It's up to you. Growing in moss for all orchids grown in Japan is as much for the aesthetics as it is a "tactical" choice. The mounds look neat, and moss does a good job of spreading and retaining moisture. The only thing you have to be mindful of is

1. Do not overwater in the colder seasons. They can handle staying dry for quite some time, maybe 2 weeks depending on humidity.
2. Do not fertilize in the cold seasons. They won't get upset about it, but they'll just make keikis instead of flowers in spring. (I made this mistake with mine.)
3. Water whenever their medium dries out in the warmer seaons. This won't be as often with moss mounds.
4. Mounting or potting in orchid bark works great too, and let's you be able to water them more frequently.
5. Fertilize in the warmer seasons like you would other orchids.

Thanks kind of it. They're pretty tough cookies. Keep in mind it's said that the varieties with colored flowers can't take frost as well as varieties with pure white flowers. I don't know if that's because all colored flower varieties are hybrids, or it's just how the plants are genetically.

I grow my Neos mounded so I’m pretty familiar with that…thanks for the info!

 

[mrhappyrotter]

I could ask a couple people, maybe Satomi from Seed Engei might know. I know choseiran are grown more for the aesthetic than they are fragrance. You're not going to get something like fuukiran where the fragrance is noticeable.

I figured as much, but I've actually not seen a lot of D. moniliforme in bloom in person to know for sure. However, I've read different references to the species being anywhere from non-fragrant to lightly scented to highly fragrant, so I'm hoping there are at least some varieties that might fit the bill for me. I'm okay with faint fragrance like this plant has, but I'm finding more and more that scented flowers are a pretty big requirement for me (aside from slippers). So, something that's at least on the same level of strength as a D. nobile would be much appreciated.

 

[BrucherT]

It's up to you. Growing in moss for all orchids grown in Japan is as much for the aesthetics as it is a "tactical" choice. The mounds look neat, and moss does a good job of spreading and retaining moisture. The only thing you have to be mindful of is

1. Do not overwater in the colder seasons. They can handle staying dry for quite some time, maybe 2 weeks depending on humidity.
2. Do not fertilize in the cold seasons. They won't get upset about it, but they'll just make keikis instead of flowers in spring. (I made this mistake with mine.)
3. Water whenever their medium dries out in the warmer seaons. This won't be as often with moss mounds.
4. Mounting or potting in orchid bark works great too, and let's you be able to water them more frequently.
5. Fertilize in the warmer seasons like you would other orchids.

That's kind of it. They're pretty tough cookies. Keep in mind it's said that the varieties with colored flowers can't take frost as well as varieties with pure white flowers. I don't know if that's because all colored flower varieties are hybrids, or it's just how the plants are genetically.

Makes me want to try again. All the ones I’ve died the death.

 

[alecStewart1]

I figured as much, but I've actually not seen a lot of D. moniliforme in bloom in person to know for sure. However, I've read different references to the species being anywhere from non-fragrant to lightly scented to highly fragrant, so I'm hoping there are at least some varieties that might fit the bill for me. I'm okay with faint fragrance like this plant has, but I'm finding more and more that scented flowers are a pretty big requirement for me (aside from slippers). So, something that's at least on the same level of strength as a D. nobile would be much appreciated.

I emailed Satomi but haven't heard anything back yet. She's probably busy with packing up orders, likely mine especially since I ordered like 7 plants from her.

On an interesting note, she just listed a Sankanou for auction and it's like as "Dendrobium Ise"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176348611783?itmmeta=01HWB4S733MAN5EKEWP7J9MM42&LH_Auction=1

This is where it starts getting to the fun language barrier, where more information you can find about what is a hybrid and what is not is likely in some writing somewhere...that's not in English. I'll reach out a couple of other places, see if anyone is willing to answer my annoying questions.

 

[mrhappyrotter]

I emailed Satomi but haven't heard anything back yet. She's probably busy with packing up orders, likely mine especially since I ordered like 7 plants from her.

On an interesting note, she just listed a Sankanou for auction and it's like as "Dendrobium Ise"

https://www.ebay.com/itm/176348611783?itmmeta=01HWB4S733MAN5EKEWP7J9MM42&LH_Auction=1

This is where it starts getting to the fun language barrier, where more information you can find about what is a hybrid and what is not is likely in some writing somewhere...that's not in English. I'll reach out a couple of other places, see if anyone is willing to answer my annoying questions.

I saw that listing on Ebay, I guess I didn't realize that seller was who you were talking about. I was also very surprised at the asking price, since I didn't pay quite that much for my plant. I suppose it's a nicer clone that I thought, but I can see why it might fetch a good price given the exceptionally beautiful variegation and the interesting flowers.

 

[alecStewart1]

@mrhappyrotter

From my quick correspondence with Kiyoshige Negi of Negie Orchids:

Me:

Hello!

I'm a fairly new grower of fuukiran, choseiran and shunran in America, and I've heard very good things about you as a vendor.

I was hoping if you could help me gain some more knowledge about choseiran, as here in the US we don't have a ton of information about them as compared to fuukiran.

I had a few basic questions:

1. What is the difference between what is classified as choseiran and sekkoku?
2. What constitutes a "high ranking" / "popular" variety?
3. What varieties, if any, have a stronger fragrance than others?

Hope to hear back from you, and have a great day!

Kiyoshige-san:

Dear Alec Stewart,

It's our great honor to know that people enjoying those Japanese little treasure.


1. The difference, definition: The Chouseiran is registered Den. moniliforme to the Japan Chouseiran Society. Some of them are very old variety from 300-400 years before. Sekkoku is the plant non registered Den. moniliforme though it has clone name, mostly selected from wild or seedling.


2. Generally speaking, high ranking variety has multi character and rare one. Multi character is leaf variegation, bulb shape, size, color, flower shape and color, rareness. Popular variety is the plant that has a [small] population, used to be a high ranking but increase population made it not [as] rare. Japan Chouseran Society has a ranking Chart same as Fuukiran Chart. You can find easily its ranking now.


3. Usualy Den. moniliforme do not have strong fragrance but when in greenhouse you can feel good fragrance if you have many plants


Hope you enjoy,

 

[mrhappyrotter]

@mrhappyrotter

From my quick correspondence with Kiyoshige Negi of Negie Orchids:

Me:



Kiyoshige-san:

Thanks for all the info! I guess that settles it, if I want to smell this fragrance, I have to have lots of D. moniliforme!