delenatii & delenatii dunkel

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Paul

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First bloom for the dunkel, second bloom for the normal one: :D





 

Paul

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Very, very Nice dunkel! What are your plans with the var. dunkel? breeding?
Maybe I should cross with the "big" one (9cm) to improve size and shape?
But if colour is recessive, it will take two generations (at least 8 years) to see the final blooms:wink:
 

SlipperKing

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Maybe I should cross with the "big" one (9cm) to improve size and shape?
But if colour is recessive, it will take two generations (at least 8 years) to see the final blooms:wink:
I think there are others on this forum that have bloomed dunkel. Maybe you can get pollen from someone here.
 

Kyle

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I would not cross it with the normal form. The vinicolor form has more unique features other then the colour of the pouch. Specifically the leaves. Its hard to predict what will happen when you cross it back to the normal form, then back to itself. I for one, would not pay a premium for one of those seedlings. In fact I would pay less.

I compare it to Phrag jersey.

Self it, or as someone on the forum for pollen.

Kyle
 

Paul

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well, I can try to ask if one does have pollen to exchange, if not I will try to self it (but not sure it will work)
 

Hien

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I would not cross it with the normal form. The vinicolor form has more unique features other then the colour of the pouch. Specifically the leaves. Its hard to predict what will happen when you cross it back to the normal form, then back to itself. I for one, would not pay a premium for one of those seedlings. In fact I would pay less.

I compare it to Phrag jersey.

Self it, or as someone on the forum for pollen.

Kyle
I agree with Kyle.
I rather see a pure Dunkel.
 

Paul

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In fact I hesitate to self it this year or wait next bloom, even if it's a very healthy plant. I don't want to kill it!!:confused:
 
D

Drorchid

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In fact I hesitate to self it this year or wait next bloom, even if it's a very healthy plant. I don't want to kill it!!:confused:
If you don't want to self it, I would have no problem crossing the Dunkel form with your regular delenatii. Unlike crossing Phag. besseae to Phrag. dalesandroi to get Phrag. Jersey, these are both the same species, so you still get Paph. delenatii. The reason for doing this is that you probably will get increased vigor (You get hybrid vigor when you cross 2 plants from different populations that have been isolated from each other). Also the genes that create the dark colors in the Dunkel form are probably dominant to part dominant (as dark colors are usually more dominant compared to light colors). The offspring will probably be not as dark as the Dunkel form but rather intermediate. Also the size will be intermediate between the 2 forms. But out of the seedlings you can select the 2 that have the darkest colors and the largest flowers and cross them together. In your next generation (F2 generation) you may end up with plants that have the same dark color as the Dunkel form, and just as big as the regular form.

Robert
 

Paul

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If you don't want to self it, I would have no problem crossing the Dunkel form with your regular delenatii. Unlike crossing Phag. besseae to Phrag. dalesandroi to get Phrag. Jersey, these are both the same species, so you still get Paph. delenatii. The reason for doing this is that you probably will get increased vigor (You get hybrid vigor when you cross 2 plants from different populations that have been isolated from each other). Also the genes that create the dark colors in the Dunkel form are probably dominant to part dominant (as dark colors are usually more dominant compared to light colors). The offspring will probably be not as dark as the Dunkel form but rather intermediate. Also the size will be intermediate between the 2 forms. But out of the seedlings you can select the 2 that have the darkest colors and the largest flowers and cross them together. In your next generation (F3 generation) you may end up with plants that have the same dark color as the Dunkel form, and just as big as the regular form.

Robert
Yes Robert, that's what I was planing to do, because my other delenatii has almost perfect shape and dunkel has good shape, so they can improve each other.
I will have another flower on the dunkel, so I can self it as well!:)
 

Hien

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If you don't want to self it, I would have no problem crossing the Dunkel form with your regular delenatii. Unlike crossing Phag. besseae to Phrag. dalesandroi to get Phrag. Jersey, these are both the same species, so you still get Paph. delenatii. The reason for doing this is that you probably will get increased vigor (You get hybrid vigor when you cross 2 plants from different populations that have been isolated from each other). Also the genes that create the dark colors in the Dunkel form are probably dominant to part dominant (as dark colors are usually more dominant compared to light colors). The offspring will probably be not as dark as the Dunkel form but rather intermediate. Also the size will be intermediate between the 2 forms. But out of the seedlings you can select the 2 that have the darkest colors and the largest flowers and cross them together. In your next generation (F3 generation) you may end up with plants that have the same dark color as the Dunkel form, and just as big as the regular form.

Robert
I believe Jason mentioned that OL has a bunch of them. How big are they now? and did you cross any of the best Dunkel ones to each other yet?
 

myxodex

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Really, really, like the dunkel ... you should have enough pollen to remake one of the classic delenatii primaries as well ... such as with a dark micranthum as someone else here has suggested in another thread.

I wish mine would hurry up and flower ... although bought as var nigrescens ... I suspect it is the same as dunkel.
Cheers,
Tim
 

SlipperKing

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I wish mine would hurry up and flower ... although bought as var nigrescens ... I suspect it is the same as dunkel.
Cheers,
Tim
I've bloomed out 3 of the "var nigrescens" and they were all normal colored with reflected petals. I wouldn't get your hopes up:(
 

GuRu

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Not sure what I would do, but Robert's statement sounds convincing.
I like them both and just by the way 'dunkel' is the German word for 'dark'. As far as I know the terms 'dunkel' or 'vinicolor' or perhaps 'nigrescens' are all only traders names. There is no official describtion of this form until today.
You can recognise it at there leaf edges which are dark purple even at the upside. It looks as if there was a dark purple stripe around the leaves.

Best regards from Germany, GuRu
 
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