Death of a dream!

[Shiva]

I have been very busy lately taking out the plants from the greenhouse to the house and trying to sell many of them. Many more will probably die for lack of place in the house.

I simply can't afford to heat the greenhouse anymore. Way too expansive for me. All my efforts to conserve energy have been thwarted by the ever rising cost of heating, and it won't get any better in the future.

From now on, I plan to use the g/h to store hardy plants like rhododendrons, cyps, small trees, roses and so on. With a good covering of hay on the plants, I may be able to keep zone 6-7 plants alive for the winter without heating.

All intermediate temps plants are moving inside the house under high intensity lamps and fluorescents. At least the heat generated by the lamps will help heat the house.

Like the Borgs say in S-T. I will adapt!
But not without some pain.

 

[biothanasis]

This is sad actually. Isn't there any other way to heat the house? Focusing on hardy plants is a very good idea though!!

Good luck!!

 

[eggshells]

That is unfortunate.. A greenhouse in our area isn't feasible too as we get harsh winters.. And heating a greenhouse in our winter is a sure way to go bankrupt.

 

[Clark]

Do you have basement Michel?
And what fluorescents/bulbs will you be using?

I'm married to T-8's, and I like to peak over the neighbor's fence to see if the grass is greener.

 

[goldenrose]

So sorry to hear that, hope you can work out something on the inside.

 

[Shiva]

Do you have basement Michel?
And what fluorescents/bulbs will you be using?

I'm married to T-8's, and I like to peak over the neighbor's fence to see if the grass is greener.

No basement and none possible since I live in a seasonnaly flooded area.

I grow in a room 6 by 16 feet wide on the second floor. Which means I have to carry rain water up the stairs, sometimes several times a day. It helps for the exercice. I use two 1000 watts lamps, one metal and one sodium. I also have two 400 watts (same types) which I use three or four hours a day to keep light evenly spread out. The main lamps are turned on 14 hours a day at this time of year. There are two windows to help vent the room plus two large fans for air circulation, especially when the windows are shut for the winter.

I also have shelves with T8 for smaller plants like paphs in the next room.
Not to mention an old pantry room next to the kitchen where I keep cold plants like masdevallias. More T8.

Several large plants are put up in the solarium for the winter until I find someone to buy them. If not, they'll eventuall be trashed.

Finally, my Orchid Window where I keep some angracoids, paphs, phals an bulbophyllums.

As you can see, I do need to downsize!

 

[Justin]

I grow a couple hundred orchids indoors under lights too, and it is definitely a lot of work to water etc. But i do love having the plants right there in the house to enjoy all the time.

 

[cnycharles]

sorry to see... had you tried the large drums of water underneath the benches to help conserve heat? also heat blankets over the plants/under the roof?

I also suffer from 'indoor orchid' situations... would be much easier to use a hose like I do at work also spraying for things, but in my apt I have to catch all water underneath, use an aquarium pump to pump/drain back into a bucket and carry to the toilet. If you had a spot where you could use a portable pump and pump your rainwater upstairs through a garden hose, you could eliminate carrying upstairs (though I understand the need for exercise! ) hope you can find homes for everything

 

[Shiva]

sorry to see... had you tried the large drums of water underneath the benches to help conserve heat? also heat blankets over the plants/under the roof?

I'm through trying to isolate the g/h better. As I said, every gain in efficiency I make is more than offset by the rising cost of propane and electricity. Despite everything I've done, it costs me more than $3500 heating the g/h last year.

I don't mind carrying rainwater upstairs. But when I run out, which happens in winter, I can use a hose plugged to municipal water. I have very large made to order pans to catch the water and it helps maintain humidity in the growing room.

My problem is how to find buyers for big plants. It seems everybody has the same problem these days: lack of space.

 

[Dido]

big plants would be nice, have a big house but you are on the other side of the world.
I can feel with you, had the same problems with energy.
Changed now with heating on Solar pannels, on sunny days even at - 24 outside it helps to heat the house, reduced my consumption of oil I had from 5000 liter to under 2000 the last winter.
No they have combined ones with heating the water and producing electric power.

 

[cnycharles]

about lack of space for big plants- often orchid society members love having hands-on clinics and a repotting clinic with a divided-up large plant would fit the ticket! you could run an ad for orchid clubs (or even a garden club or botanical garden) for larger plants (just a thought)

 

[quietaustralian]

I grow in two very different environments. In Australia my greenhouse is in an inland Mediterranean type climate with summer temps often over 40C and winter lows down to -4.
A couple of years ago I installed an earth heat exchange system EHE(a fancy name for a buried pipe). I installed this system with the intention of using the cool earth at 3 metres deep to cool the greenhouse but have found that the almost constant temp coming from the EHE allows me to warm the greenhouse in Winter. With a completely insulated Southern side of the greenhouse and huge amount of thermal mass (6000 litres of water) I no longer need extra heating or cooling. In winter a fan draws air into the greenhouse and in summer a solar chimney draws in the cooling air. I understand that your winters are many times more extreme than mine but the same principle has been used in Alaska. The link below relates to a very basic system in a climate very similar to yours.

http://flashweb.com/blog/2008/09/earth-air-tubes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-coupled_heat_exchanger

 

[Shiva]

I grow in two very different environments. In Australia my greenhouse is in an inland Mediterranean type climate with summer temps often over 40C and winter lows down to -4.

Not practical here. The frost line goes down to one and a half meters and I live in a seasonnally flooded area. In winter, the temperature can go down to near -40°C. A trench deep enough and long enough to provide barely above freezing conditions inside the greenhouse would probably have to be very deep and very expansive to dig.

If I were to start all over, i would build an insulated type garage structure with a few windows and a normally insultated roof. And I would use HPS and HiD lamps to light and heat the place.

 

[NYEric]

Sorry to read about this. Hopefully a local society can take some.

 

[SlipperFan]

I am sad for you, Michel.

 

[valenzino]

You can also save some electricity by using lamps like high output horticoltural fluorescents,like floramax,envirolite etc...i saved + o - 40 % with good results.

here is one of my growing areas.

No basement and none possible since I live in a seasonnaly flooded area.

I grow in a room 6 by 16 feet wide on the second floor. Which means I have to carry rain water up the stairs, sometimes several times a day. It helps for the exercice. I use two 1000 watts lamps, one metal and one sodium. I also have two 400 watts (same types) which I use three or four hours a day to keep light evenly spread out. The main lamps are turned on 14 hours a day at this time of year. There are two windows to help vent the room plus two large fans for air circulation, especially when the windows are shut for the winter.

I also have shelves with T8 for smaller plants like paphs in the next room.
Not to mention an old pantry room next to the kitchen where I keep cold plants like masdevallias. More T8.

Several large plants are put up in the solarium for the winter until I find someone to buy them. If not, they'll eventuall be trashed.

Finally, my Orchid Window where I keep some angracoids, paphs, phals an bulbophyllums.

As you can see, I do need to downsize!

 

[Hakone]

I grow in two very different environments. In Australia my greenhouse is in an inland Mediterranean type climate with summer temps often over 40C and winter lows down to -4.
A couple of years ago I installed an earth heat exchange system EHE(a fancy name for a buried pipe). I installed this system with the intention of using the cool earth at 3 metres deep to cool the greenhouse but have found that the almost constant temp coming from the EHE allows me to warm the greenhouse in Winter. With a completely insulated Southern side of the greenhouse and huge amount of thermal mass (6000 litres of water) I no longer need extra heating or cooling. In winter a fan draws air into the greenhouse and in summer a solar chimney draws in the cooling air. I understand that your winters are many times more extreme than mine but the same principle has been used in Alaska. The link below relates to a very basic system in a climate very similar to yours.

http://flashweb.com/blog/2008/09/earth-air-tubes.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-coupled_heat_exchanger

Hello quietaustralian

in what state do you live ? Victoria or NSW ?

 

[TyroneGenade]

What attempts are you making to store heat? Do you have large (sealed) barrels of water in the green house under the benches to hold heat? The problem with a big empty green house is that air doesn't hold warmth very well. Unless you fill the g/h with something with a high heat capacity (i.e. which can hold heat) the g/h very quickly bleeds heat. Also, if you haven't properly double-glazed the root and sides then the heat escapes all the faster. If you are using glass then the problem is all the worse as glass is an excellent conductor of heat. You want to be using polycarbonate or something similar with at least a 1 inch gap between the two sheets.

 

[Shiva]

The glazing is polycarbonate on an aluminium frame, Tyrone, but I would have done better to construct my own wooden frame and bought the poly separately and put more space in between. I've learned a lot about greenhouse construction and if I could afford to build another one, it would be considerably better.

 

[Wendy]

Not practical here. The frost line goes down to one and a half meters and I live in a seasonnally flooded area. In winter, the temperature can go down to near -40°C. A trench deep enough and long enough to provide barely above freezing conditions inside the greenhouse would probably have to be very deep and very expansive to dig.

If I were to start all over, i would build an insulated type garage structure with a few windows and a normally insultated roof. And I would use HPS and HiD lamps to light and heat the place.

My parents had a geothermal unit installed to heat their house. It was incredibly expensive but will pay off in the long run...for a house. I don't think I'd pay that price to heat a greenhouse though.

Your plan for an insulated garage type building is exactly what I want for my future 'greenhouse'. I think that's a great idea. :clap:

Best of luck with your plants Shiva. I recently downsized and am still in the process so I know how difficult it is.