Bacterial streaming

[Erythrone]

You should read more of the Si trials Lance.



We all know what the suspected element may be?? We don't even know if there is antagonism do we? But yes if there is one, is has to be.....let me guess...ahhh...Hang on I know this....

Let me help you: Find the missing letter

Phrag. _lotzscheanum

Still don't know? Try this one:

Paph. _olopa_ingii

Or

Phrag. _ovachii

 

[Bjorn]

Si???

 

[Rick]

Si???

http://www.fnga.org/education-and-research/research/reports/75/finalreport.pdf

You might like this one Bjorn

looks like plenty of Si in organic media can translate into plants (including orchids) in container gardening methods

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajb/article/viewFile/95426/84767

Also here's a paper on optimizing the media for a bacteria that dissolves silicacious and carbonate rock. I noticed that urea inhibits this species, nitrate helps, and a form of salicylic acid helps too.

Other papers show this is one of many bacteria able to dissolve silicaceous materials (like the sponge rock and sand) popular in our potting mixes to transpose silica from potting mix to plants.

Do our high feed rates inhibit these beneficial bacteria from getting Si into our plants?

 

[gonewild]

Let me help you: Find the missing letter

Phrag. _lotzscheanum

YES! Khrag. plotzscheanum

Still don't know? Try this one:

Paph. _olopa_ingii

Kaph polopapingii

Or

Phrag. _ovachii

Khrag povachii

:rollhappy:

 

[gonewild]

You should read more of the Si trials Lance.

I have Mike.

 

[Erythrone]

YES! Khrag. plotzscheanum


Kaph polopapingii



Khrag povachii

:rollhappy:

It sounds good!:rollhappy:

 

[Rick]

It sounds good!:rollhappy:

Klingon slippers:evil:

 

[cnycharles]

Klingon slippers:evil:

Those are called khlogs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Bjorn]

http://www.fnga.org/education-and-research/research/reports/75/finalreport.pdf

You might like this one Bjorn

looks like plenty of Si in organic media can translate into plants (including orchids) in container gardening methods

http://www.ajol.info/index.php/ajb/article/viewFile/95426/84767

Also here's a paper on optimizing the media for a bacteria that dissolves silicacious and carbonate rock. I noticed that urea inhibits this species, nitrate helps, and a form of salicylic acid helps too.

Other papers show this is one of many bacteria able to dissolve silicaceous materials (like the sponge rock and sand) popular in our potting mixes to transpose silica from potting mix to plants.

Do our high feed rates inhibit these beneficial bacteria from getting Si into our plants?

I have sen the first one before, the second is new to me. Silicon is normally present in well and also surface water, due to its low solubility it there at some 10-20ppm normally and gets absorbed by the plants. I have no doubt that my water being taken from the nature contains enough of it. But some of the highly processed waters some of you have to use are devoid of silicon, and deficiency, particularly in combination with overfeeding can be one reason for the relatively high mortality to rots seen in some collections.
I am still adding silicon to my water, just to be certain the plants get enough. Have been doing it for a year now. No big differences except for almost no plants getting rot and mortality is almost abscent.
One of the documented effects of silicon is its ability to moderate uptake of other nutrients. Aditional to that comes that enough silicon makes the plants tolerate stresses in a much better way. Typical are salt stress(fertilser) and drought. Heavy metals is another stress that silicon moderates.
When you Rick got so good results by mixing in some well water, that could well be due to introduction of silicon to your RO water.

 

[Rick]

When you Rick got so good results by mixing in some well water, that could well be due to introduction of silicon to your RO water.

I was thinking that too Bjorn, so I had Si run on my well water, and it was surprisingly low (I think <<1ppm).

I'll double check the report in case my memory is slipping.

For surface waters in the US I haven't been seeing very high values for soluble Si (typically 1-3 ppm max). But its not something we frequently look for.

I know of a few localities that seem to have very high values like you are suggesting. They grow diatoms real well.

 

[Rick]

I have sen the first one before, the second is new to me.

You might want to poke around more on the bacterialogy of Si release in soils. It certainly appears that's what they are eluding to in that first paper that shows how much Si is available in the media.

That paper I linked looked like the tip of the iceberg in this area. It looks like the agri community is doing a lot of bio inoculation to use this group of bacteria to unlock K from feldspars that seem to have 99% of soil K locked up.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730966/

In the meantime that produces a lot of soluble Si.

In the above paper they applied bacterial cultures to test fields of corn. Soil prep does not seem to be optimal compared to the bench experiments (they added N and Mg but no sugar or salicylic acid) but they did get increased P and K into the plants.

The biological process is very fast. Those figures show pretty massive population and enzymatic response in less than 24 hours.

 

[ALToronto]

This reminds me of a research discovery a few years ago that took the concrete industry by storm. Some civil engineering students at Delft U in the Netherlands identified bacteria that recrystallized Si and Ca in cracks in concrete, thus making the material 'self-healing'. Turns out their idea wasn't all that far-fetched!

They didn't publish much about it - I think they were trying to make $$ from selling the bugs. They also weren't clear on how to feed them and control what they do.

 

[Rick]

This reminds me of a research discovery a few years ago that took the concrete industry by storm. Some civil engineering students at Delft U in the Netherlands identified bacteria that recrystallized Si and Ca in cracks in concrete, thus making the material 'self-healing'. Turns out their idea wasn't all that far-fetched!

They didn't publish much about it - I think they were trying to make $$ from selling the bugs. They also weren't clear on how to feed them and control what they do.

That's funny that in this case they were making solids instead of eroding them away.

I was worrying about the converse that these critters could eat up microchips and solar panels.:evil:

Bacillus subtilis is extremely common in the environment (it's actually more common in the human gut than in soil). So its not like these are rare scientific creations.

 

[Rick]

When you Rick got so good results by mixing in some well water, that could well be due to introduction of silicon to your RO water.

There's actually two parts to this question. One is amount, the other is history.

I've been adding well water back into RO on purpose for a couple of years before low K. I did notice some select improved growth , but no difference in disease prevention. Also my fogger system (misters before that) blow straight well water throughout the GH and that's been going on for almost as many years as I've been growing orchids. I know you've seen the white dust on my pics of plants, so you can get an idea of how pervasive that fog gets around in the GH.

Since I couldn't find the old water report, I remembered we just got in the HACH test for silicate testing this year. So ran a sample this morning. Got 13.1ppm SiO2.

So I doubt my plants have been Si limited over the years.:wink:

 

[Bjorn]

You mean that they got it from the dust? Could be as there are some indications that foliar sprays may work, but generally SiO2 (this is what we speak of in this context) dissolves slowly. Another thing to notice is that only Si(OH)4 is taken up by the plants. Only the monomer. Once it starts to polymerise, and that happens within the plant, it will not be absorbed. Guess yor dust is mainly polmerised silica and this unavailabe for the plants......perhaps?
Except fors that, 13ppm sound as a nice number for Si.

 

[Rick]

You mean that they got it from the dust?
Except fors that, 13ppm sound as a nice number for Si.

The fogger/ex-mister system doesn't blow dry dust. It's fine water droplets (that dry out to dust).

Not sure how consistent that 13ppm is but it would do fine, even at 10% use.

Yet another source of silicates is pearlite (sponge rock) and charcoal that are in most peoples mixes. Still in a few of mine. Pearlite is mostly silicon dioxide, but with all that surface area just perfect for bacterial erosion in a potting matrix.

http://agritech.tnau.ac.in/org_farm/orgfarm_biofertilizertechnology.html

These bugs are everywhere!

 

[Bjorn]

Difficult with silica and soluble silica. The solubility of silica is very dependent on its source and surface area of the source. Non crystalline silica with large surface area like diatomeous eart dissolve readily, while crystalline does not. Ash does dissolve silica easily, if it has not been overheated during firing, which is normally the case. Guess none is liberated from charcoal. Perlite, I do not know about that but would expect dusty perlite to contribute somewhat.

 

[ALToronto]

Bjorn, what about crushed olivine (magnesium monosilicate)? Do you know if it can dissolve, even slightly?

 

[Bjorn]

Unsure about it, but probably it may dissolve somewhat. What I do know however is that if milled finely enough it leaches MgO so that there is actually an industrial process where olivine is leached with hydrochloric acid to give magnesiumchloride. The remains is a porous silica skeleton, so how much of that which dissolves is unknown. But in principle, olivine should be a source of both Mg and Si. Mostly Mg though and it gives an alkaline reaction so watch out. pH gets 8-9 if olivine fines is mixed with water.

 

[Rick]

Difficult with silica and soluble silica. The solubility of silica is very dependent on its source and surface area of the source. Non crystalline silica with large surface area like diatomeous eart dissolve readily, while crystalline does not. Ash does dissolve silica easily, if it has not been overheated during firing, which is normally the case. Guess none is liberated from charcoal. Perlite, I do not know about that but would expect dusty perlite to contribute somewhat.

Only difficult if you don't believe in the power of bacteriaoke: