Anyone grow hoya?

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TheLorax

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I've had a few of these hanging in my house for several years. They seem to thrive on neglect and they bloom well enough on and off throughout the year. I ordered cuttings with a group of people and picked up quite a few new hoya. They rooted well over a month ago and I'm going to have to go and get them potted up here real soon before the weather turns. They really are nice hanging plants and can stand up to being banged around by kids and going without water if you forget you have them.

There's one particular hoya that I've been looking to buy. I'm going to have to track it down sooner or later. Take a look at this if you like hoya-

http://www.flickr.com/photos/epiforums/265761766/in/set-72157600338453745/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/epiforums/265761763/

I guess that plant is a Hoya aff. Cyrtocerus floribundum but I've been reading where people have been arguing about the id.

Three others I'd like to track down sooner or later would be-
H. bicknellii, nabawanensis, and oreogena
 

Candace

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If you can't find the hoyas you're looking for over the net, let me know and I can give you the e-mail address of someone from my local OS. She's grows a huge amount of hoyas and I would be surprised if she didn't own some or all of the ones you're looking for.
 

TheLorax

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I've tried tracking down the ones I lust for and came up empty handed. Well, I found a nursery over in Australia that had the H. bicknellii, nabawanensis, and oreogena but not worth it for me to place an overseas order for only three cuttings once I add the cost of the inspection and phytos so I was hoping to find them somewhere locally or at least in the US. Please do send your friend my lust list. If she's growing those four I want, I'll buy. Thanks for offering.

Here's what I have in the house (some are recently rooted cuttings) but with the purchase of these 4 I have been wanting, I'm officially out of space for Hoya-

albiflora
archboldiana
arnottiana
australis ssp. sanae
australis ‘Lizard Isle’
bella “Kentiana”
bella lancelota sbsp lancelota
bella “Sulawesii”
carnusa
carnusa “Bilobata”
cambra
clandestina
coronaria
dolichosparte
eitapensis
greenii
imperialis
‘Iris Marie’
javanica
lacunosa var. pallidiflora
linearis
longifolia
macgillivrayi
magnifica
monetteae
multiflora
multiflora variegata
pimenteliana
pottsii
Purpurea-fusca
thompsonii
plus two that have missing tags
 

Candace

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O.K. I sent her an e-mail. I don't know when I'll hear from her, however as they were on a trip to Russia and they may not be back, yet.
 

TheLorax

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No great rush. I'm very appreciative that there may be a local source for the plants I've wanted to buy.
 

Candace

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I just heard from her. She said she belongs to a hoya society and she's only ever seen one of your listed species in publications. So, they are very, very rare. She doesn't have any of them. Sorry!
 

likespaphs

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nice. i have a small collection with kerrii, carnosa, lacunosa and serpens.
they're pretty cool.
my kerrii blooms like mad frequently though i was only able to bloom the carnosa for the first time this year. i think it may be in too much light and i may water it too frequently...
 

Leo Schordje

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That is quite a list you have. David Liddle's Nursery in Australia is the only place to get hoya with any hope of having the right name on the plant. Order from anyone else and you have better than 50% chance of a mis-labelled plant. I refuse to join Dave's Garden or the other forums. Too much mindless nattering. However they do regularly put together a group order to Liddle, which I have taken advantage of. I have about 30 Hoya myself. This is about 25 more than I have room for. I'll be selling a few extras at the WOS show in Milwaukee this weekend. (don't tell Bil they are not orchids)
Have we met through the Illinois Orchid Society? or the WOS? I'm in NE IL too. Private Message if you like.
 
G

Greenpaph

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Very beautiful and different! That is quite a list!

I have polyneura, serpens and bella.

:clap:
 

TheLorax

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Hello Leo Schordje, we might have met since we're from the same area although I'm not a member of the Illinois Orchid Society or whatever the WOS is. I pretty much stick to my family and native plant folk but I do volunteer work in the community and particularly enjoy working with children and seniors. I've spoken to 17 senior groups in the past 12 months. Working with seniors was new to me and I must admit I have thoroughly enjoyed myself. Most of the people in senior housing are into container and balcony gardening utilizing readily available native plants to attract birds and butterflies but some are in assisted living and are very interested in attracting wildlife. Most assisted living centers have a community garden where everyone can fiddle around to their hearts content. Other than that, I volunteered to work on some educational programming for kids so perhaps our paths have crossed at a native plant conference or seminar?

The blunt of my plants above came from David or were cuttings of plants that my girlfriends ordered from him. He sends nice healthy pest-free cuttings and I never have to worry about him screwing around with phytos and such. He has never mislabeled a plant on me to the best of my knowledge but... he is selling an odorata that is suspect, could actually be cembra I am told. People are human, they make mistakes and he has an incredible inventory. I placed my order to him this last time with two girlfriends from a native plant group (ironic that the people who plant natives outside have so many exotics inside). I should have ordered those lust-for hoyas from him a few months ago but I was already ordering about 8 cuttings and didn't have any more space to lay them out to root them. Incidentally, there is at least one other source that I know of where one's odds of getting a mislabled plant would be about the equivalent of receiving a mislabeled plant from David however she is a private collector and sticks to herself and a handful of friends. She's the one who got me hooked on hoya for my home.

I'm afraid I don't know who Bill is. Is he a member here and I'm just not matching up his real name to his user name?

Thank you Lance Birk, I will check out your link.
 

TheLorax

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From the Rare Hoyas site-
WHAT’S NEW - WHAT’S COMING UP -

"This Feb-March '07 trip to Palawan Island, Philippines, was a social/touristy success for Carol Noel, Rudy and Anne Bachmann and my wife Dorothy and me but a failure for collecting, zero, zilch, nada! It is amazing how the areas have changed in the past 7 years and didn't find a single H. imperialis or D. imbricata in places where there were many before. We didn't find H. curtisii and H. darwinii at St. Paul's Bay."

"So, we went to Fiji where we were successful in collecting all 4 of the Fijian species: H. diptera, H. vitiensis, H. australis and the long sought after H. megalantha. We found them all within a 20 mile stretch on the island of Taveuni. The H. megalantha we found in the exact place where I had searched 3 times before, at 3,200 ft., but this time there was ONE, wilting flower still in bloom (end of the season) and that lead me to a whole group of the plants. You should have seen this 84 year old climbing a 25 foot cliff above the road to get it!"

"We also found, H. diptera, H. vitiensis and maybe H. megalantha (no flowers) part way up (at 2,700 ft.) Mt. Victoria (Tomanivi) on Viti Levu. That hike was easy compared to climbing that cliff on Taveuni."

I'm sure he's a wonderful person and I thank you for the referral however I will not knowingly purchase plants from anyone who field collects and it would appear this individual actively field collects. Lord knows these plants are easy enough to propagate. It is my understanding David Liddle offers cuttings from plants he propagates himself based on photos I have seen of his nursery and comments made by others who have been ordering from him. If you have knowledge that Mr. Liddle is an active field collector, please do share as me and my friends will never order from him again. I'm sure even his original sources were wild collected plants but it seems rather odd that in this day and age someone is out actively collecting plants from the wild that are already in cultivation that could be purchased then propagated for the green industry.
 

TheLorax

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I can't read but the first post at that forum. Maybe my settings on my computer are off or something. So far I can see the name of the person is Aloha Hoya and when you click on the link to the associated profile, there is a link to a nursery of the same name and also to something called Big Island Growers. This person appears to be someone who owns and operates a nursery. I couldn't help but spot this in that first post, "Don't mean to sound prissy...nor authoritarian and please forgive if I have come off as arrogant. I worry about polluting an already polluted pool with more confusion....". So, it's ok to worry about polluting pools of plants available for resale but it's not ok to worry about polluting natural areas when people trample the plants to get in to dig them up to take back for resale? I suspect that you and I are going to have to agree to disagree on wild collecting. If the rest of that thread contains any information that David Liddle is out actively field collecting the plants he sells and not propagating them, please share the rest of the thread with me as I truly won't buy another plant from him. I was under the impression based on his extensive propagation operations that he was cloning his parent stock.

Hoyas aren't illegal to collect in countries like that, but then you already knew that. Lots of plants aren't illegal to collect in those countries. We Americans are somewhat more progressive in protecting our natural resources these days but not much and we certainly can't compete with what the good people of New Zealand have done to protect their natural resources and fragile ecosystems. We've got the laws on the books but little or no means to enforce them which is a shame. To me, it's a matter of ethics. Just because you can doesn't mean you should. There's a precarious balance that exists in many native plant communities. These plants need to reproduce. Digging them up or collecting seed just because a country has no laws on the books will reduce the ability of remaining plants to reproduce and could negatively impact survival of the species at that location depending on how many are taken as well as other factors. Additionally; the removal of plants from the wild, regardless of whether it is legal or not, can negatively impact pollinators and other species that depend upon the plant for survival. In my humble opinion, it is best to leave these plants be to sustain them for future generations given there is so much development going on that desirable plants frequently become made available to virtually anyone willing to go out and dig them up before the excavators come.

I think this about sums up the damage done by field collectors- "It is amazing how the areas have changed in the past 7 years and didn't find a single H. imperialis or D. imbricata in places where there were many before". Gee, I wonder how many people visited to collect plants in the past seven years since he was there collecting plants himself? Sadly, many collectors aren't capable of keeping what they dig up alive and many more collectors stick what they dig up in a box to ship off to people who were high bidders on online auctions. Plant material gets intercepted by the USDA and ends up dying in a holding bay or having to be destroyed when the appropriate certs don't accompany a shipment. Anyone get a chance to see the high tech equipment the USDA is using to inspect packages these days? Any one visit a USDA quarantine area lately to get a good look at the volume of plant material that is dead or slated to be destroyed? It's mind boggling.
 

Leo Schordje

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Hi Lance,
. Ted Green is a great guy,, wonderful hoyas, great orchids and quite a collection of Sobralia. His friend Dale Kloppenburg does have the bad habit of redescribing and renaming the same species over and over. Especially when it comes to the Hoya littoralis, memoria, gracilis, tsangii, burtoniae, grouping as a case example. There is a plethora of names for what is likely only a couple species. Christine Burton just pours gasoline on this mess and lights flame war fires. The chorus of women followers of Dale generate a cacaphony of mis-quotes and mistatements that just fan the flame wars. The noise makes the markianum-tigrinum and kovachii-peruvianum discussions look civil by comparison. I've given up looking for rational discussions of what the various Hoya species names actually represent. David Liddle is the only distributor who is consistiently provides an accession number and a name on every tag with every plant sold. His catalog then provides the collection locations for every accession number. If there is a later name change, you can track it through the accession number. Ted has wonderful stock, propagated from his various collections, but you have a hard time tracking name changes through his system. I buy from Ted regularly, and Liddle, and accept the fact that there will be debate, and future name changes for the different species. It is a fascinating group of plants. Though orchids will remain my first love.

For Lauren, with Hoya, the wild collection is only of a few CUTTINGS, the original plant is allowed to remain in place. Then the cuttings are grown on at the nursery, the stock sold are cuttings of the original cuttings. A collection done wonce provides propagation stock for generations. Some of Ted Greens original collected cuttings happened over 30 years ago. It really is a less destructive method of collecting than anything that happens in orchids.
Leo
Leo
 

TheLorax

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I'm a proponent of responsible and sustainable collection by the green industry. Get these plants and others that are desirable into cultivation so they can be sold to the public to stop the poaching and collection from wild areas as well as the trampling of other companion species.

Yes, it was my understanding that only cuttings were taken by David Liddle not whole plants and that his current inventory consisted of plants that he propagated.
 

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