Afghanistan.

[Stone]

Firstly..... let people do/believe what they like as long as it doesn't affect others!
But with all the craziness going on about this anti Islam film ( I haven't seen it ),riots all over the place. ( Kids holding up banners saying ''Behead those who insult the Prophet'' )----Please!!.. Even here in Sydney for the first time ever. It brought home to me yet again the belief that we ( the West ) are wasting our time, money and lives tring to make a difference in Afghanistan.
Right from the beginning I always believed that as soon as the the US etc. withdrew from there it would go back to exactly how it was within a matter of months. Some former Muslims here are saying the very same.
You hear all these military leaders saying we are doing this and that. We are building schools and hospitals..we are making a difference.
I don't kinow whether its the soldier mentality or whether they are too close to it see the big picture but I never hear them saying ''These people will NEVER be swayed. they look to the ''Afterlife'' for their strength, and they will wait 10, 100 or 1000 years to have their revenge or whatever they believe is important to achieve. (which is undeniable)
So why the hell do we bother.
What are the thoughts in the US on this?

 

[gonewild]

Personally I don't know any who would disagree with you or that think we (USA) should be doing what we are doing.

Military leaders can only say what the President wants them to say or their careers would be over.

 

[Rick]

I'm just glad that my boys are presently state side:clap:


One just got back a week or so ago.


I was definitely against the start of both Iraq and Afghanistan. But when the kids are there, I keep my mouth shut.

 

[cnycharles]

if there was actually some camp that was definitely aimed or had succeeded at sending bad guys over and over to places to blow them up etc, then maybe on a short term it might have had some necessity. but, afghanistan and other places like bosnia just happen to be in areas that are crossroads between others, and people want to control them. (what i've heard on historical channels) the people there (afghanistan) have probably been exposed to so much fighting and flag changing through the centuries, in addition to being migratory somewhat, that they don't so much care what 'government' is in charge; they also in recent history have had invaders there, so fighting 'against the man', is their culture now. they don't have any idea of stability or idea what it is or if it's even desired, and once you have others from the outside bringing in hate and ideas on how to release it, then I don't think there is any future in anything soon there. though i respect other's beliefs or right to have a lack thereof, the belief of the people rioting now is to kill or subjugate anyone that isn't themselves by any means necessary, or won't convert to what they believe.

 

[Paul Mc]

And yet, the video supposedly came from the u.s.! I'm not saying the uprisings were at all justified, nor the killings, but the creator of that film is guilty of just as much hatred as those in the uprisings! Why would you create a film that would create such anger, knowin that good people (and Christians at that, since the creator was supposedly Christian) would be killed in the riots!!!!! What kind of person would do that?!!!! The Middle East may be more outspoken with their extremists, but the U.s. is certainly filled with them as well.

Sorry for my rant. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[cnycharles]

sorry, but there are idiots in any country. because one idiot makes a film (look at youtube ), doesn't mean a whole country is 'bad' and you should run around killing people. that's just as idiotic to react that way. so what if the guy sent a video from the united states; I could send a film to timbuktu and have it uploaded by a local there, and they'd kill their ambassador

i didn't watch any video, but try watching some of the anti-west videos that come from the middle and near east; what kind of hatred is expressed in those films? there is extreme, extreme hatred everywhere, there is no need to use something like this to point a finger and start blaming whole groups of people. hatred is everywhere

the point is, people who have succumbed to hatred have no idea or control over what they are doing, or what the outcome will be, nor do they care. the trick is to not let other's hatred push you to the point where you no longer have control over yourself. those who let others push their buttons to get a reaction, then react, and then blame others for their actions are just as guilty as those who start the hatred. nobody can blame someone else for their actions or reactions. the only person who can ultimately control your actions/reactions is 'you'.

 

[Paul Mc]

And I'd like to add two points.

1. It wasn't the entire nation in an uproar,, but a very statistically minimal few. In my mind, that doesn't justify blaming a whole nation or area of the world.

2. I'm sorry if my rants offend anyone. Again, they are a personal opinion. I am obviously reeling from this as much as the next, but I believe that the actions of a few should never speak for the conscious of an entire nation.

 

[NYEric]

I fully support our troops and leadership. Any setback to fundamentalism (of any religion) is a good thing.
BTW, I heard that the funding of the film was from an American of Coptic background and if any group has reason to stand and portray Islam as "not quite a nice thing" it would be them!

 

[Paul Mc]

Ooooh, thank you for that info!!!! I must research more. I still believe that the creator is just as guilty though. I do understand the perceived "need" for such a film, but the consequences on even the religion that created it do not seem to have been considers. I agree with the above poster that hatred is hatred, and that the goal is to reach beyond it and act with more consciousness than that which was shown, for the good of all people, regardless of creed, nationality, religion...

 

[kentuckiense]

I still believe that the creator is just as guilty though.

Look, I get what you're trying to say. The guy that made the movie is probably a jerk and very likely hates Islam. However, there is a BIG difference between making a crappy movie and firing a rocket-propelled grenade.

I guess what I'm saying is cultural relativism should never be an excuse for brutality, and that's coming from one of the most liberal people (especially from a civil liberties standpoint; ie the right to make crappy movies about Islam) on this forum.

 

[Stone]

And I'd like to add two points.

1. It wasn't the entire nation in an uproar,, but a very statistically minimal few. In my mind, that doesn't justify blaming a whole nation or area of the world.

2. I'm sorry if my rants offend anyone. Again, they are a personal opinion. I am obviously reeling from this as much as the next, but I believe that the actions of a few should never speak for the conscious of an entire nation.

I think you may be surprised at just how widespread this feeling (even though they don't act on it) is among muslims in general. My wife experienced this a couple of years ago when she had a small car accident in a ''Muslim'' neighbourhood a few years ago. She was hit by a muslim woman flying around a corner without looking. After getting out of the car and demonstrating her (wife) discontent (she's American:rollhappy, she was immediately surrounded by a bunch of young men screaminig obsenities and telling her to ''F**k off home to her own country'' These guys were mostly born here! so the feelings are learned again and again.......
Its like talking to a squashed apricot and expecting rationonality.

 

[Stone]

setback to fundamentalism

No setback!!!...... Just feeding more.

 

[Paul Mc]

I realize my opinion may be in the minority, but I fully believe in considering the consequences of your own actions before acting. I understand that merely thinking about killing someone is far different than actually speaking to someone about commencing those actions or doing them. For me, the bottom line is think before you act, despite your reasons for hatred. I, personally, would never judge anyone on the actions of one or a few to speak for the entire race/religion/whatever. I am a minority myself, but I would hope and pray that people see me as something other than what I see/feel that I am represented as through the actions of others.

Again, I want to express my deepest apologies for any offense these comments may make. I am at heart a believer that all people deserve basic human rights and respect until that person individually has proven otherwise. And even then, I would never deny them their basic human rights.

 

[Paul Mc]

And I do agree, creating a movie isn't the same as cutting someone's throat. However, we all know the volatile nature of that area and this person should have thought more than hated given the potential may have been, even for those Coptic's remaining there

But as the old saying goes, "You just can't fix stupid."

 

[NYEric]

What makes it worse is terrorist seem to have hijacked the protest for their own agenda! I hope the people behind the murders of the Diplomatic Service workers are hunted down and killed like dogs!!

 

[Paul Mc]

I just realized that since I'm on my phone I can't show my location as being from St. Louis, MO, USA. I fear that some may read my comments as an outsider to the nation I was born as raised in. My apologies.

 

[NYEric]

Saint Louis -traitor! :viking:

 

[gonewild]

Again, I want to express my deepest apologies for any offense these comments may make. I am at heart a believer that all people deserve basic human rights and respect until that person individually has proven otherwise. And even then, I would never deny them their basic human rights.

You never need to apologize for expressing your opinion....never.

 

[Paul Mc]

ROFL!!!!!!

Yes, I am a traitor!!!!! LOL...

 

[gonewild]

What makes it worse is terrorist seem to have hijacked the protest for their own agenda! I hope the people behind the murders of the Diplomatic Service workers are hunted down and killed like dogs!!

Or terrorists actually made the movie to create kaos?