Wide vs narrow leaves on complex paphs

[papheteer]

I remember reading somewhere that when choosing complex paph seedlings wider leaves = better/rounder blooms. Do u guys find this to be true? Thanks!

 

[Drorchid]

Absolutely! It does not always hold up 100%, but yes in general there is a strong correlation between the width of the foliage and the width of the flower petals, so wider flower petals means larger and more rounder flowers. When I select plants at a seedling stage, I always select the fastest growing and most vigorous plants, and of those I select the ones that have the widest foliage.

Robert

 

[papheteer]

Thanks, Robert! I heard you're coming to a show in ontario soon. Hope to see you there!

 

[TyroneGenade]

Great information, thanks!

 

[Roy]

Ross, I was the one who offered that advice I think. Don't forget the ridges that run the length of the leaf also.
The leaf wideth is subject to the parents used also. If the direct and background family don't have wide leaves it would be difficult to get it in a seedling. Generally speaking, IMO, those complex Paphs with narrow leaves aren't much good anyway.

 

[goldenrose]

:clap: I was waiting for Roy to respond - that was my first thought! I remember the ridges, then I started to doubt my memory ability thinking I was confusing the 2.
Thanks Roy, I feel better this morning!

 

[Roy]

Rose, your memory hasn't let you down. Both features can be found in the one plant also.
I'm very please Robert replied as he did, I get many arguments when I raise the point.
Its also probably a good thing I live where I do, if I wandered into Roberts place and found Paph seedlings as described for sale, I might have trouble getting them out of the place.

 

[Ross]

Ross, I was the one who offered that advice I think. Don't forget the ridges that run the length of the leaf also.
The leaf wideth is subject to the parents used also. If the direct and background family don't have wide leaves it would be difficult to get it in a seedling. Generally speaking, IMO, those complex Paphs with narrow leaves aren't much good anyway.

I remember Roy's comments, also, and have begun marking and observing seedlings, since.

 

[paphioland]

Just like the last time I am going to disagree. At least with greens and whites which is what I mostly see in large quantities. I have seen thousands for the last few years and havent seen any firm pattern. One of the largest fullest complexes I have and have seen has thin long leaves. There may be a small correlation but is by NO means the rule. That being said I prefer short round leaves for reasons other than flower quality. I have been looking at this carefully. Most of my complexes do have short round leaves but then again most well bred complexes do. I know that good breeders avoid breeding with large long leaves in general if can be avoided. So this may have something to do with it as well. Lesser breeders might not select for the plant size and the better breeders might take this into account and that is how there may be some difference. Who knows.

 

[rdlsreno]

Absolutely! It does not always hold up 100%, but yes in general there is a strong correlation between the width of the foliage and the width of the flower petals, so wider flower petals means larger and more rounder flowers. When I select plants at a seedling stage, I always select the fastest growing and most vigorous plants, and of those I select the ones that have the widest foliage.

Robert

I agree!

Ramon

 

[papheteer]

Thanks, everybody for all the input! Roy, u mind tell us again about the ridges? I missed that one. Thanks!

 

[Roy]

paphioland, I don't disagree with you regarding Yellow, Green & White Paphs in the leaf width discussion, they are much more difficult to pick. Those colors have never been as available here as all other colors & spotted so I don't have the same knowledge of them as you do in plant characteristics.

Ross, I'll see if I can get a good pic of the ridging I mentioned and go from there.

 

[Roy]

Ok, I have some pics of the plants and the flowers thereof.

P. Bilambil 'Thelma' ( not the best pic of plant )

P. Passion 'Carol'

Seedling, P. Bilambil 'Thema' X Spring Creek.

P. Orchilla 'Chilton'

One for paphioland that does actually follow the rules ( rare though )
P. Zesta 'Orb' ( A seedling flowered by me )

 

[Darin]

So Roy, the ridges you speak of I assume you mean the rippling in the leaves rather than the centerline ridge that runs the entire length of the leaf as an indicator of better petal width (Generally)?

Darin

 

[Roy]

Correct Darin. Leaf width is also important. Not well indicated in the pics because of plant size though.

 

[Mrs. Paph]

I've heard that wrinkles/ridges in the leaves can be a sign of polyploidy, which would explain larger/fuller blooms too. I'm not a huge fan of complexes though, so I guess I haven't looked at many and didn't know the ridging could be so extensive and even on a plant! Interesting pics and tips!

 

[nikv]

Thanks for the lesson, Roy! I recently started getting into complex Paphs and have purchased several seedlings on eBay. Most have ridges similar to the ones in your photographs. I was thinking that they were indications of a lesser-quality plant, but now I'll have to change my mind on that one.

A friend of mine taught me many years ago to look for seedlings with wider leaves as a general indicator that the flowers will most likely have wider petals. This holds true for a lot of genera, not just Paphiopedilum. But as others have pointed out, it's not a steadfast rule. There are certainly plenty of exceptions.

 

[Ross]

Thanks for the excellent pictorial lesson, Roy. A picture is worth a thousand words!

 

[papheteer]

I was just ordering some complex plants from Sam Tsui of Orchid Inn. And I asked for plants with wide leaves. He replied asking me where I got that idea. He also said that he blooms hundreds of complexes every year and see no co-relation between width of leaves and flower quality. He said that it all depends on culture and breeding. I do wish he still sends me plants with wide leaves though!